The Doll Forum

I have a 2013 DS 168 third hand "Sasha" with tight joints and have been rotating her wrists by twisting her hand with no problems. I just received a new 2015 DS 168 with tight joints and the new soft silicone and can NOT move her wrists in the same manner. Whether its the new soft silicone or that Sasha has loosened her wrists over time I do not know. So, 2015 tight joint DS Doll owners PAY ATTENTION!

NEVER ATTEMPT TO TWIST HER WRISTS LIKE THIS! ALWAYS LIKE THIS! OR THIS Use movements in reverse to return to the original position. I am hoping this post saves 2015 tight joint, soft silicone DS Doll owners some grief. This is a similar technique to rotating her upper leg. Bend the leg at the knee and use the lower leg as a lever to twist the upper leg.
Remember, if your doll is not wanting to move in a certain direction, she is SHOUTING at you to STOP!
Jiayi

You're absolutely right on this and thanks for the heads-up.

On dolls who have been well exercised one can rotate at the hand in a natural way but I found on my Aira (2 1/2 years old) the other day that having had difficulties turning her wrist, putting her hand at right-angles was the way to turn her hand.

Turning her hand from the hand loosens the silicone from the metal bone, but doesn't actually do damage as such, but your photos illustrate good practice. Perhaps you should add them to the Chloé Safety Briefing for all dolls thread as they should be in a sticky as a matter of instruction.

Best wishes

Harem

interesting and usefull information to dsDollsweet owners

This is so valuable Jiayii, you know what you talking about, you own old and new silicone dolls.

it is like deal with two different women, with different characters.

i notice in my nina head, new silicone is soo soft and squeeze, so it will be more easy to feel the bone in wrist, fingers, palms and arms. and being more soft it will need to be more caution with sensitive areas lke hands and feet,

thanks for the tip Jiayii, please tell us more about new tecniques on DSdoll care.

regards.

I'll note this also applies to fingers!

Sometimes you can actually get the finger wire twisted and the finger gets twisted (At least in my, non DS doll)

Doing the same procedure of bending it up, turning and bending it back will untwist it. Trying to just grab the finger and twist the wire directly will likely start detaching the wire from the finger.

DarkOne wrote:I'll note this also applies to fingers!

Sometimes you can actually get the finger wire twisted and the finger gets twisted (At least in my, non DS doll)

No - the problem that you're encountering is unique to the make of doll in front of you. DS fingers are very cooperative, go in the direction they are intended to and are independent of wrist movement. In your doll the finger wires extend from the wrist rather than the hand, so move with wrist movement. DS are properly designed.

For DS dolls, the procedure outlined in Jiayi's posting here is standard good practice for all DS dolls of all vintage.

Best wishes

Harem

haremlover wrote: No - the problem that you're encountering is unique to the make of doll in front of you. DS fingers are very cooperative, go in the direction they are intended to and are independent of wrist movement. In your doll the finger wires extend from the wrist rather than the hand, so move with wrist movement. DS are properly designed.

Thank you Harem, for pointing out that not all doll skeletons are the same. In the case of DS, the fingers move as you would expect a human finger to move, without needing and special procedures. This is because the finger wires are only in the fingers, not extending up the palm and wrist. I'm afraid that because DS is one of the very few manufactorers to show a good detailed skeleton pic, people are assuming all doll skeletons are built the same way. This is not the case and not the first time I have tried to address this issue.
Jiayi

jiayi wrote:

haremlover wrote: No - the problem that you're encountering is unique to the make of doll in front of you. DS fingers are very cooperative, go in the direction they are intended to and are independent of wrist movement. In your doll the finger wires extend from the wrist rather than the hand, so move with wrist movement. DS are properly designed.

Thank you Harem, for pointing out that not all doll skeletons are the same. In the case of DS, the fingers move as you would expect a human finger to move, without needing and special procedures. This is because the finger wires are only in the fingers, not extending up the palm and wrist. I'm afraid that because DS is one of the very few manufactorers to show a good detailed skeleton pic, people are assuming all doll skeletons are built the same way. This is not the case and not the first time I have tried to address this issue.
Jiayi

Actually, Nope! my doll does have a proper wrist rotational joint so her fingers don't all twist weirdly when you rotate her wrist. But I understand not all dolls are so fortunate.

However, being clumsy with her in bed, sometimes her fingers get bent 90 degrees and then rotated by things like blankets, rolling her over or moving around her.

The result is when I straighten her fingers, they sometimes are slightly rotated in that the fingernail no longer points up, but slightly off to the side. Reversing the procedure that originally twisted them will untwist them. If you just grab them and twist they just spring back, you have to bend 90 degrees, use that as a lever to rotate them, then bend back straight, as the original poster showed to do with wrists.

DarkOne wrote: However, being clumsy with her in bed, sometimes her fingers get bent 90 degrees and then rotated by things like blankets, rolling her over or moving around her.

The result is when I straighten her fingers, they sometimes are slightly rotated in that the fingernail no longer points up, but slightly off to the side.

I think that any manufactured fingers without muscle and one way rather than two way (updown but not left right) hinges will tend this way. When you move your fingers your muscles know which way to bend them. If someone or something else rather than yourself goes to move your fingers randomly you will say "ouch" and if the someone or something ignores your protestation, your finger joints will be broken. Dolls can't say "ouch" and for that reason wires are a very good compromise in fingers.

When rolling over in bed, get her to keep her arms and hands and fingers placed against her so that they are part of her, rather than extremities, so can't get caught.

By the way, whilst other aspects of your other make of doll leaves things to be desired the fact that she actually has a rotational joint is very good news and a big improvement from before.

Best wishes

Harem

haremlover wrote: When rolling over in bed, get her to keep her arms and hands and fingers placed against her so that they are part of her, rather than extremities, so can't get caught.

By the way, whilst other aspects of your other make of doll leaves things to be desired the fact that she actually has a rotational joint is very good news and a big improvement from before.

Best wishes

Harem

Yep, I have learned that, but still sometimes the fingers get a little bent.
Yes the wrist rotation joint in the upper forearm is wonderful. Too bad its already very loose and showing a lot of play in the joint. I should have bought a DS.

Yes - this would have been a good tip with my older dolls but now having worked with a new 2015 model, it's vital. Thanks so much for starting this thread and bringing this to attention.

Best wishes

Harem

That is great information for all doll owners to observe! From the day my dolls began to move into my house, I have rotated their hands just like this to avoid damage to the fingers and palms. As many here know, my dolls are of other manufacturers and not DS but, this is the best way to rotate any dolls hands to prevent damage and it works perfectly! I have see many dolls hands from several manufactures that had the palm plates pushed right through the hand silicone from rotating the hands like in the first photo even with the older more stiff silicone and with the new softer silicone, that issue can be worse! Again, great piece of info that all doll owners should observe and DO! AlexKnight demonstrated this exact procedure in a video he made with his doll Kayla about 2 years ago. Great post!

Dodgeman

Yep. I learned early on to move all of my DS dolls like this. It's all about leverage, especially when you're moving a tight-jointed doll. Loose-jointed dolls are much more forgiving, but you must bend the hand at the wrist before attempting to rotate it. Always, especially with the new formula, because it gives way to pressure and torque much more easily.

dodgeman wrote:That is great information for all doll owners to observe! From the day my dolls began to move into my house, I have rotated their hands just like this to avoid damage to the fingers and palms. As many here know, my dolls are of other manufacturers and not DS but, this is the best way to rotate any dolls hands to prevent damage and it works perfectly! I have see many dolls hands from several manufactures that had the palm plates pushed right through the hand silicone from rotating the hands like in the first photo even with the older more stiff silicone and with the new softer silicone, that issue can be worse! Again, great piece of info that all doll owners should observe and DO! AlexKnight demonstrated this exact procedure in a video he made with his doll Kayla about 2 years ago. Great post!

Dodgeman

No, this is not the best way to rotate any dolls wrists. Some dolls do need a different wrist rotation procedure. some of much lesser quality then DS use a joint in the forearm for wrist rotation, and have a wrist joint made of wires so weak that overcooked pasta would be stronger then them. For those dolls you rotate the wrist by grabbing the arm, just *below* the wrist and rotating, never by bending the wrist or touching the hand at all as you'll damage the wrist joint if you put any force on it. Seriously some (not DS, But generally the TPE) dolls wrists are so weak they bend just from the weight of the hand moving when you change the arm position.

That said, Looking at how the skin, bones and such on my own human arm rotates when I turn my wrist, I wonder if this is not slightly more realistic to have the rotation joint be in the forearm then the wrist? It seems like the skin rotation blends all the way up the arm to the elbow when you rotate your wrist, like a rotation joint was about half way up your arm and the skin was not very attached to that point, or like multiple joints that share the rotation. The skin at my wrist actually follows my hand rotation exactly.

Actually, Where is the DS 'wrist' rotation joint exactly? is it possible for anyone to post a picture of a DS, with a line drawn down its arm (Say, makeup powder, so you can easily remove it after, Or maybe just a line using a heavy application of cornstarch powder or whatever), and then the wrist rotated after the line is drawn so we can see where the skin rotates?

In the DS design the wrist rotation is actually achieved at the wrist itself. From memory a nylon (or whatever) "plug" rotates in the aluminium or stainless tube there, so rotating at the wrist hinge - and to which Jiayi's instructions here apply specifically to DS dolls.

You're quite right about rotating other makes of wrist and you're quite right about other dolls having wrists made of wires weaker than strands of pasta . . . With those one has to rotate at the elbow for the desired hand direction. . . . and it's for this sort of reason that despite being regularly pilloried for doing so, however attractive other dolls might be, I always can recommend DS to newbies knowing the absolute reliability both of the DS design, quality of build and customer service. People receiving a DS doll in person cannot be anything other than utterly in awe and the people who mock me for my enthusiasm for DS are people who haven't experienced one yet . . .

I have enthusiasms for aspects of other makes too . . . but one can have unreserved confidence in DS.

Best wishes

Harem

Glad I ordered a DS doll!