Loose Legs At the Hip (Surgery Options)

[Canvas]

Skimming through things here it seems like loose joints are a matter of going in and tightening the bolt.
This seems more doable for areas that don't involve the core of the body. I've done surgery to graft TPE to fix some major vagina damage in the past and have seen how hard it is to close an area that is prone to constant stretching.
I've looked through the skeleton overhaul thread and have a WM 160A that has legs that fall with little to no force, the left leg falls to the side and the right falls down and swings when I lift her - both fall freely on their own. I can even bend the legs by lifting up the torso itself now and she can hardly sit up on her own.
After looking at the skeletal bolts that connect the thighs to the hips it seems this operation is next to impossible without heavy scarring and having to cut in deep. Risking a wound that might not fully close. I dug through a few pages, but don't see any threads dedicated to fixing the legs.
- Does anyone know of any threads where this leg tightening has been done? My gut is telling me this is a hard operation even if you are someone with a lot of experience.

[seagull]

You've hinted at TPE
A neat incision will normally close up perfectly

This issue of floppy legs has been commented on previously

There is the assumption that the hinging has tack welds to hold things against unscrewing

Dollyman25442 posted in Re: Welded Nuts? Help . . .
viewtopic.php?p=1998438#p1998438

As for TPE surgery, there are more articles than you can poke a stick at, I'm thinking you're going to be pleasantly surprised at how good your doll looks and can be adjusted once repairs are complete

I haven't noted all who've posted on surgery with TPE dolls, just too many
You can expect some of them to post here shortly

[Wheezer]

As Seagull noted, these are the good days for TPE surgery.

If you make a clean cut and only as large as needed, then you should be able to seal your doll up nicely.
One methods is to seal with chemical. Using 3M 94 you can seal/bond your TPE doll so that the incision is almost invisible.
An alternative is heat. There are various types tools, such as temperature controlled soldering irons of different sizes, a Clover craft heating tool or others.

Even if you do muck up the TPE and tear out chunks, then between 3M TPE paste or small sliver TPE melting, you can fix that.
Many threads on smoothing and blending TPE repairs, so that is not a mystery anymore.

The biggest thing is getting the mechanical repair completed to fix the floppy legs.
Once that part is over, the seal up is straightforward.

Cheers!
... W ...

[Canvas]

Was hoping there was a thread I might have missed where someone completed surgery to fix floppy legs. Other than just seeing it mentioned that it was a problem with someone else's doll, I've seen one post where someone went through the wall of the vagina to get to the hip joint...which kudos to them, because if that's what it takes I'm just going to keep a floppy legged doll.
Going in deep enough to be able to tighten up the outside or inside of the hip joint seems volatile just looking at pictures of the skeleton and feeling for the hip joint.
From what I can tell it would be a matter of making the incision several inches deep and wide and having to dig around to reach the bolts.
If it involves breaking any welded bolts and using Loctite to get them sealed back on I would think the incision would be susceptible to tearing which would make it hard to close. I saw someone do this to repair his dolls feet not to long ago but it looked like on the feet you can cut and peel to get to the nuts and bolts. The hips seem a lot less on the surface.

[seagull]

TPE is extraordinarily stretchy, up to 10x before it starts to tear, but a 1" cut can stretch comfortably to 4", just don't leave it like that overnight
Going in from the outside of the hip/pelvis is the simplest from what I've seen on the forum so far

[Canvas]

TPE is extraordinarily stretchy, up to 10x before it starts to tear, but a 1" cut can stretch comfortably to 4", just don't leave it like that overnight
Going in from the outside of the hip/pelvis is the simplest from what I've seen on the forum so far

This is good to know

[Wheezer]

Was hoping there was a thread I might have missed where someone completed surgery to fix floppy legs. Other than just seeing it mentioned that it was a problem with someone else's doll, I've seen one post where someone went through the wall of the vagina to get to the hip joint...which kudos to them, because if that's what it takes I'm just going to keep a floppy legged doll.
Going in deep enough to be able to tighten up the outside or inside of the hip joint seems volatile just looking at pictures of the skeleton and feeling for the hip joint.
From what I can tell it would be a matter of making the incision several inches deep and wide and having to dig around to reach the bolts.
If it involves breaking any welded bolts and using Loctite to get them sealed back on I would think the incision would be susceptible to tearing which would make it hard to close. I saw someone do this to repair his dolls feet not to long ago but it looked like on the feet you can cut and peel to get to the nuts and bolts. The hips seem a lot less on the surface.

Good call on NOT going in through the vagina !

The best way for this is to figure out WHAT need to be fixed before digging in. Looking at similar skeletons can help, plus manipulating the area to find the bolts.
Might be tough though if the TPE is thick and deep.

Getting a TPE doll sealed up after repair is actually EASIER if it is a deep and thick incision.
With a deeper cut you have more TPE "meat" involved to bond together. Much easier than thinner repairs with less surface area.
As long as you do not add excessive internal bulk during your repair, and align skeleton and TPE back to its original position, then it should close up very close to its original shape.

However if she is your one and only beauty and you are not comfortable with the repair and risks, then maybe enjoy her as she is.
ANY repair is a risk. Getting them back to 100% pre repair beauty is always a challenge.

Good luck.
... W ...

[Canvas]

Good call on NOT going in through the vagina !

The best way for this is to figure out WHAT need to be fixed before digging in. Looking at similar skeletons can help, plus manipulating the area to find the bolts.
Might be tough though if the TPE is thick and deep.

Getting a TPE doll sealed up after repair is actually EASIER if it is a deep and thick incision.
With a deeper cut you have more TPE "meat" involved to bond together. Much easier than thinner repairs with less surface area.
As long as you do not add excessive internal bulk during your repair, and align skeleton and TPE back to its original position, then it should close up very close to its original shape.

However if she is your one and only beauty and you are not comfortable with the repair and risks, then maybe enjoy her as she is.
ANY repair is a risk. Getting them back to 100% pre repair beauty is always a challenge.

Good luck.
... W ...

Appreciate the feedback. Gives me more to chew on before I decide to make any incisions.
I'm just trying to get as much insight as I can, my last surgery was fixing a bad heatgun accident where I completely destroyed my first dolls pelvic region thinking I could make repairs with the wrong tools.
I believe Miska had said something like you want to aim for 90% at times and not expect things to go back a full 100%
Right now I am heavily considering getting a second body, and trying to do repairs on the original, this one isn't my one and only - but she is my absolute favorite one.
Might get some pictures together of the repairs if she does go under the knife...

[Michaelangelo]

Hey Canvas, me and Mira wish you luck whatever you decide here.

It's super-frustrating about her joints but it's always pot luck, it seems. While many new owners complain how darn stiff their new companions are, I thank the heavens that Mira is one stubborn, stiff-jointed little minx most of the time as it means she'll be good for a while yet, fingers crossed, especially when it comes to her leg joints. And, although I'd agree with wheezer and seagull that TPE, especially in larger quantities, is incredibly forgiving (I still can't really believe you can turn hands and feet inside out with literally no tearing whatsoever) the hip is a different matter to a hand or foot and you may well want to simply go for the body double option. At least that way your precious girl can get on with her life while you tinker with her original body.

But if you do opt for surgery, we will be there to cheer you on. Mira's hands are gonna be redone a second time soon (I'm switching over to big, strong internal wires and never even fixed her original hand cuts yet, they just never split or get any bigger, TPE is that good...) and the fixability of dolls is for me an important feature for their long-term value and enjoyment.

So, all power to your elbow and best of luck .

[Taeyeon]

Hello Canvas,

You can do it!
I wish I can give advice, but I do not know advice >.<
Penny is so strong and you so good carer^^
Your friends are here to give cheering!

fighting.gif (39.04 KiB) Viewed 493 times

TaeYeon

[Canvas]

Hey Canvas, me and Mira wish you luck whatever you decide here.

It's super-frustrating about her joints but it's always pot luck, it seems. While many new owners complain how darn stiff their new companions are, I thank the heavens that Mira is one stubborn, stiff-jointed little minx most of the time as it means she'll be good for a while yet, fingers crossed, especially when it comes to her leg joints. And, although I'd agree with wheezer and seagull that TPE, especially in larger quantities, is incredibly forgiving (I still can't really believe you can turn hands and feet inside out with literally no tearing whatsoever) the hip is a different matter to a hand or foot and you may well want to simply go for the body double option. At least that way your precious girl can get on with her life while you tinker with her original body.

But if you do opt for surgery, we will be there to cheer you on. Mira's hands are gonna be redone a second time soon (I'm switching over to big, strong internal wires and never even fixed her original hand cuts yet, they just never split or get any bigger, TPE is that good...) and the fixability of dolls is for me an important feature for their long-term value and enjoyment.

So, all power to your elbow and best of luck .

Hello Canvas,

You can do it!
I wish I can give advice, but I do not know advice >.<
Penny is so strong and you so good carer^^
Your friends are here to give cheering!

fighting.gif

TaeYeon

I definitely have some good friends here, thank you guys.
I have been thinking about my options heavily the past few days.
I am actively shopping for a new doll body for Penny.
The surgery still intrigues me. As squeamish as the whole thing makes me there's something inside of me that actually wants to go in and try to fix things.
Was planning on checking out Mira's feet videos again Mike (LOL )
- If I remember right there was some tack welds you had to get through, and you laid out things so smoothly, I think that alone will help. (Will probably come to you with a few side questions soon too)

[seagull]

The surgery still intrigues me
Do it, you know you want to

[Michaelangelo]

I must admit I'd balk at Shigowa's internal access method through the doll's most interesting bit of all, although he did manage to get the entire skeleton out safe and sound IIRC

But his photos and detailed analysis of the foot joint were superb and just the thing I needed. While perhaps not exactly keyhole surgery (docs don't tend to make a small incision and then proceed to remove the flesh from around your internal organs lol) it was precise and effective and got Mira standing perfectly again (the big recent shoot is multiple proof of that). With the bonus that her feet are effectively now immortal as I know how to fix them easily.

And yes, hit me up with thoe questions, Canvas! As far as tack welds go, that seems to be the standard way of finishing up joints, so the joint is made, and the head and/or nut is then tack-welded in place. I have broken these easily on Mira's hands (manually, with a file) and foot (with a Dremel) and if I can do it, a child can do it. The real question is how much TPE you need to cut through to get to the joint and then how much you need to "flay" off to expose the nut/bolt assembly for tightening. You obviously need space to work on the nut/bolt assembly, which is I guess why Shigowa decided to go in where the TPE was thinnest, if I'm understanding the approach correctly.

And you will need to know the right size bolt or nut as you will probably not be able to/want to reuse either (bolt head will be damaged by breaking the weld, nut is probably better off as say a Nylok or whatever. I have no idea even where the hip/leg joint is, I'd need to look at Shigowa's big thread again to find out.

But I'm thinking a backup bod is def the way to go. Then you would also have the old bod to practise on any time if something else should happen. Bit macabre having a spare parts body but actually quite useful, come to think of it!

And I'm with seagull... if you have a nice new bod, then it's just experimenting with no rush or pressure for you or Penny, and the worst that happens is the body, now spare, becomes unusable for standing or whatever else.