BoyToyDolls Cost Too Much! Discuss Here

[technoguy]

A lot of good things being discussed here and maybe WE who think the high-end sex dolls are overpriced should have OUR own forum!

Someone asked how much the PC I am using to post this costs. Well, I'm using an MSN TV 2 unit which normally retails for about $200 USD. I thought that was excessive so I shopped around and found a NEW one for $40 USD on eBay. It works great!

Well, I could give multiple other examples, but the net result is that I am doing fine while my neighbors are living from paycheck to paycheck and struggling to keep the minimum payments going out on their credit cards.

Americans have been conditioned to literally throw their money away on every new thing that shows up on the tv or the internet. Credit card debt is at an all time high, our gov't has to keep borrowing BILLIONS of dollars PER DAY from the Chinese to keep afloat, and the 9 TRILLION USD national debt will be a burden to pay off for SEVERAL generations to come!

This national mania for overspending and living way beyond one's means has recently culminated in a situation where, during the next two years, upwards of 2 MILLION families will be losing their homes! But, hey, it's the Christmas season...whip out those credit cards and buy something nice for yourself...you deserve it! Somehow it will all work out and you'll get it all paid off before you know it. Yeah, right!


I'll now make a prediction which I fully expect to come to pass within the next two years.

We'll continue to see some short term escalation in the prices of the high-end dolls. Many will complain and announce that they will not be buying one. Others will defend the price rises and say it has to be "expected" in consideration of all of the improvements, artisty, uniqueness, etc. involved.

Then, suddenly and quite unexpectedly, a new member will be posting on TDF. I'll give him the fictional name of "Chan".

He will be a sales rep for the "Yank Wang Company" (another fictional name) of some Asian country and he will be here to announce that his company has just rented a warehouse in the USA and stocked it full of a new, quality silicone dolls called the "Chatty Ann" dolls.

The doll will be a full sized, Western looking love / sex doll made from surgical grade silicone. She will have three orifices, exchangeable faces, closing eyes, removable inserts, AND be capable of responding to sexual activity with a variety of very realsitic female articulations. She'll also weigh in at clsse to 50 lbs.

Then Chan will announce that this doll retails for $4000 USD INCLUDING shipping and that his company takes credit card orders as well as PayPal. The dolls will already be made up and ready to ship. He will simultaneously post some sample photos that will totally blow everybody here away with the incredible realism of the new doll's face, breasts, and genitals.

Shortly after Chan makes his post, there will be a stunned silence for awhile, then slowly TDF members will begin to respond. Initially, there will be disbelief. Why this MUST be a scam NOBODY could ever produce a doll of that quality at that price and bring it to America.

A month will go by with no further word from Chan, then, all of a sudden, some "trusted" member here will announce that he purchased the first "Chatty Ann" doll sold in North America! He will say that the sex is the most realistic he's ever had with a doll and he intends to buy another doll as soon as possible!

Suddenly, the ONLY topic of discussion in all of dolldom will be Chatty Ann and she will be at the top of the "must have" list for every member here and every lurker floating around out there in Cyberspace!

After this event occurs, the Era of the overpriced high end love / sex doll will be over and dolldom will never be the same again....


technoguy

[snugglesb469]

Well, I can't afford $7K for a high-end doll, nor can I afford 50% less than that. In fact, all I can afford is $100. I think a company should make a high-end sex doll for all the people who can only afford $100. Wait, I'll pick an even more arbitrary number. $157. I can afford $157. A doll should be made that costs $157 because that's all I can afford. You know, us 'average guys'.

Finally! Someone else in my same disposable income bracket!

Yes.... that was sarcasm.

Oh damn... Yeah, I can't afford this doll, a seperate face or Hell even just one of the $300 inserts. But do I think Matt M should lower the price? Hell no! I think he's doing what he loves, and people will pay the price he's asking for his artwork.

There are already low price dolls available. Its just that people always want a Lamborghini Diablo for the price of a Ford Pinto. The market determines the prices. If they were so high priced the company was sitting on dusty inventory, they would lower the price. If they feel they could make more money by lowering the prices and then selling larger volumes, they may decide to gear for higher production and make their product more inexpensive. But simply lowering the price because people complain that they can't afford one, and "It's just not fair?" Ehh... I don't think so.

[random_user]

If everybody could have a REMBRANT the status would be lost.

[Campdaan]

Hmmm...let''s see now. You buy the "basic" doll for $7500 USD. Then, of course, to be "complete", you'll need the other two faces. That's an extra $1500 USD. What? You were so frisky with the doll that you wore out the vagina?! Better buy a new one quick for another $300 USD.

Let's add that up: $7500 + $1500 + $300 = $9300 USD!!!

Oh, you put it all on your credit card and intend to pay it off over the course of two years at 17% interest? That will probably add another $1000 USD to your total bill.

But, don't worry, you can do it if you have a $10,000 USD limit on your card. Besides, you've already saved a bundle because the shipping was INCLUDED!


technoguy

C'mon TG..Give it a rest already. Stevie Wonder will be driving before you get a doll anyway.

Your cost analysis theory has been beaten to death on several different threads.

As my Grandmother would say ..."S#*t or get off the pot !"

[flavortang]

I've been a freelance illustrator for over 5 years and I deal with cheapskates all the time. 95% of my clients pay based on the price quotes I give them, no questions asked, but there's always a small bunch of people who want to barter, whine and negotiate over a stinkin' $50 sketch. To me, if you have to barter and negotiate the price of something, you probably don't have the money to even be thinking about buying, anyways.

[technoguy]

campdaan, et. al....

My post above adequately expresses what I think the fate of the overpriced love / sex dolls wll be. There is no further need for me to expound upon it. So, yes, I wil give it a rest. 'Nuf said.


technoguy

[dreamweavers]

tg-I won't dispute for a minute the potential (however unlikely I personally feel it is-see my previous posts, and those of others, about mainstream products) for your scenario of the fictitious Yank Wang company.
But, there is no way after this year's debacles with cheaply made, and dangerous, imports (lead paint on toys, date rape drug beads, etc) that I would buy one and use my most sensitive appendage on her for the sake of saving a few bucks.....
I'll stick with the Abyss and other known manufacturers, knowing I won't fear the loss of my abilities.

[budspencer]

I think 7500$ will be cheap once Abyss starts doing their doll with the same material Phoenix studio is using...

Oh and MD has been using the same mats I think and they sell their doll for less than $6k

I call boycotting or better start getting used to crazy prices.

[091106]

I feel that the only thing keeping their prices artificially elevated is the current LACK of competition in the USA when it come to the production of these dolls.

What then is your explanation for the circumstance that in the mature and highly competitive Japanese market the Orient Rosa/Jewel retails for ¥660,000/¥630,000 and the 4woods A.I.NEO/NEO-j for ¥650,000/¥630,000?

[Crazyhorse]

I think 7500$ will be cheap once Abyss starts doing their doll with the same material Phoenix studio is using...

I wouldn't expect this anytime soon, if ever. It would mean Abyss would have to remake ALL of its molds, to make them compatable with platinum cure (they have already said the current system is not compatable, this is why Matt needed a seperate "uncontaminated" studio). Considering the number of bodies and faces they have, this would be a huge and extremely expensive undertaking. As much as it would improve the quality and longevity of the dolls, most people wouldn't know the difference so I doubt it would increase their sales significantly.. meaning they're not likely to go to the trouble. It might even reduce sales in the long run, since people wouldn't need to replace their dolls as often.

However, I'm sure we'll see some advances from the new dolls applied to the RD eventually as Matt has sugguested, like the adjustable eyelids and replaceable inserts. These would be much easier to integrate, still a lot of work but they're the kind of improvements that would attract more buyers.

[raysmod]

technoguy,

I like your scenario about the Japanese love doll manufacturer setting up a factory and headquarters in the USA. That would certainly negate customs, import duties etc and sell a lot more Japanese inspired dolls than is the case now and greatly speed up delivery.

It is wise to be frugal with all purchases and it is very easy to be tempted to buy goods we don't really need. Sometimes this is more to fill a gaping vacuum within rather than any real material need. Though who am I to comment; one of the hobbies, given, when New Zealanders were questioned, was, "Shopping."

[Poet]

Nothing wrong with good healthy debate. The prices for high end dolls R high, so to speak. To my mind there isn't much difference between $5900.00 & $7500.00. Once U pass say, the $3000.00 mark that's basically a level change / quantum leap IMO, to the next level.

I see it as three tiers, 1.) < 3K 2.) 3-10K 3.) >10K, as yet, not a norm & for that much I would expect something entirely different from what is now being marketed across the board regardless of manufacturer.

[Doll_Luvr]

You're talking about a replica of a life-size, life-like FUCKABLE HUMAN FUCKING BEING!

To think something like that should be commonly affordable is delusional. Get over it already.

Be grateful the cheapest one out there isn't $20,000.

~DL

[Inuyasha]

Technoguy does bring up a valid point of discussion, but it isn't just relative to Realdolls.

As with any product with a relatively new and small specialty market, the products will require considerable handcrafting for several reasons. First there isn't a large enough market to make profitable use of mass production machinery. Second it is a niche market with a very limited number of buyers at this time for a product that is in it infancy.

Think of the first cars that came out around the turn of the 20th century. They were really a novelty for the rich for nearly 20 years. They only ran briefly before having to go to the mechanic. They were messy and noisy and were looked at as something only a person with too much money or no sense would buy. However, those wealthy folks that bought them allowed early R&D to happen. Slowly during those 20 years though bugs in the product were worked out that made it hard to mass produce autos and to sell them to a mass market. Also during those 20 years slowly people saw more and more reliable cars being made that didn't break down constantly and actually became practical.

At that point the market started to become big enough that a mass manufacturer could step in and actually justify mass production of cars.

Mass production is a massive capital investment, but it does really lower the prices of products through economies of scale. Instead of hand mixing buckets of silicone for each doll, you order drums or silicone pre-mixed by a supplier who knows you will be buying truckloads of it each month, so the price of materials drops. Instead of pouring silicone into a mold by hand you have injection molding equipment and a continuous production line. Instead of handpainting faces you have a robotic paint booth that puts a face on a pintel and paints it automatically via a computer program. Every face 11 with brown eyes, tan skin, blonde hair, and blue eyeshadow will look exactly like the next. These steps lower the price further.

However, before you can get to a point where you can really lower prices radically through scale efficiencies and a volume sales model, you have to have the volume of sales to use those models.

With a product that is in a small market like Realdoll or any of the other dolls for that matter, you almost certainly have considerable market volatility to deal with. First of all, you are a small business with little leverage with prices from suppliers. If silicone prices rise one month because chemicals used to make it rose the prior month, it isn't easy to pass on to your customer what may be a short term structural price issue. The chances are the company eats that cost increase for several months to see if it become permanent, and can only raise their price then after they have lost some of their profit margin for a while. Second, when you are in a business where volumes are low you can have wild fluctuations in the amount of sales from month to month. Some months you are swamped with orders, and other months no one calls. You have to price your product to take these fluctuations into account, so you can pay your fixed and labor costs in those tight months.

None of us really know what the true cost of creating a silicone doll is. A few may have experimented a bit in their garage and have an idea of what it costs from a time and materials standpoint, but most of us could not produce a high quality product, in a timely fashion, and at a low price without many throw away attempts first. You might go through 10's or 100's of thousands in molds and materials, let alone the cost of your time to get that first doll that come out perfect when you crack open the mold. Then you still have to be able to duplicate that effectively each time. It may take many many more practice dolls to get the process nailed.

Would it be nice if there was a "Model T" of silicone dolls for the everyman. Certainly the answer would be yes. However, I don't think the market is big enough for that yet. Currently the "Model T" of dolls is the inflatable. They can be produced in quantity and cheaply because they are very simple and very basic. No one expect a lot of them, because the price is nearly throw away all but a few, and even the high end inflatables are still relatively inexpensive to most. Inflatables have another benefit in their ability to be mass marketed. They can be deflated and easily hidden. Silicone dolls require inventive hiding in societies that for the most part view them often as "odd" at best or "perverse" at worst. This limits the market even further as many that could afford the finances of such a product can't afford the discovery that they have such a product, so it helps keep such a doll a very narrow niche market, and very narrow nich markets are always pricey.

I think the big breakthrough with the love doll market that will take it into the mass market category is when advances in robotics or A.I. allow the dolls to be interactive and not just sexually. As a matter of fact what might spur the biggest sale of such dolls is that they aren't sexual at all, but are rather like a human looking pet. They are nice to look at, and can interact enough to help a person really feel less lonely.

Technoguy mentioned the idea of a low-cost Asian competitor stepping in with major price savings. That is quite possible as obviously labor is very intensive in a hand-crafted product. Of course assuming that a Chinese company brought a doll to market for 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost, there are still risks. Do you know where the silicone came from and if it has any bad chemicals in it. Can you get any help when the time comes to fix it, or do you just get cold-shouldered and told to buy another. However even in a country wtih low labor costs, you may not find that you can make a doll for much less.

[midnight]

Yesterday, I went to Burger King for lunch and today I went to The Green Turtle for lunch ( a "higher end" sports bar & grill around here.)
At both places, I ordered a bacon cheeseburger, fries, and a soda.

BK --- $5.50 --- A decent, cheap, and fast munchie reliever.

Green Turtle --- $10.00 --- angus beef, "real," thick sliced bacon, real cheddar cheese, and a fresh kaiser bun; fries to die for....hell, even the ketchup was fresh. (the soda was a soda.)

The phrase "you get what you pay for" comes to mind here, and in just about anything else as well. If I need a car, and there are 2 available; one being a Pinto, and the other being a Ferrari, I'll take the one I can afford. I'd rather have the Ferrari and, if I can afford $190,000, I'll take it. If all I can dish up is Pinto $$$, then I'll settle for it. But I won't complain that the Ferrari is overpriced.