WM- Full Skeletal Overhaul (Hopefully)

[shigowa68]

Remembered I still have the frame from my torso doll, which had a twist joint in the waist.

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A nut welded onto a threaded stud. I can see some similarity to seagulls arrangement, so cut the tube open to have a look.

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A bolt head, no welds and free to spin.
Perhaps this may help someone?

[seagull]

This explains why adjusting these swivel arrangements is not as straightforward as other doll hinges
Added that to my reference file

[shigowa68]

Work has been keeping me busy, but finally got the second leg back in for it`s test fitting.
So nice to have a doll that no longer wants to fold herself in half all the time, and for the first time ever she can free stand. Not that I would let her make a habit of it.
Definitely having withdrawal symptoms from not doing a photo shoot for so long, seems a good excuse to take her new legs for a test drive before we pull them out again for re-wrapping proper.

[4891d]

Bravo Shigowa,
This thread is very impressive. And Vee seems very happy with the result.

[shigowa68]

After a photoshoot quite happy with the overall results so far, a few adjustments here and there, one knee and one foot attachment need to be tighter and one hip is too tight, but kept records of torque settings for every joint so all good, time to wrap the legs up for long term re-fit and leave it up to time and usage to see how well this all works.

After removing the leg and removing the temporary bandages, made any adjustments to the torque settings, at the same time replaced all the nyloc nuts with fresh ones and added some red theadlock for good measure.

Next, more zinc oxide tape to re-wrap the knee and the upper end of the thigh tube and the lower end of the shin tube.

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The wrapped areas where then given a couple of coats of TPE paste, all apart from the central area of the knee, around the nuts and bolts. As I figure I`ll need a lot of paste for this operation the TPE paste was made from some sacrificed fleshlights and Xylene ( a lot cheaper than 3M primer ), made thin enough to be able to apply with a brush, a little thicker than runny honey. For the actual wound repair I will be using a correct colour WM TPE/3M primer mix.

Now I`m going to need some `doll gut` ( for want of a better name )

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The `small intestine` starts life as 25mm tubular finger bandage, cut into 1m lengths and slid onto 22mm copper pipe. The `large intestine` is 45mm tubular bandage, as I don`t have anything else suitable, slid onto the thigh tube, which limits the length.

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These are then painted with `fleshlight paste.` For the first coat the paste is thinned out a little to make sure it soaks all the way through the weave of the bandage. An hour in a well ventilated place is enough to be able to apply another coat. While the third coat is still wet, pull one end of the bandage down over itself to fold it in half, the new outer surface it then given 2 more coats of paste.

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Once dry, thoroughly powder, and again pull the bandage down over itself to turn the whole thing inside out followed by 2 more coats of paste on the new outside surface.

I was`nt totally happy with the resulting large gut, I felt it was l little too short for what I needed, so made up another batch missing out the folding in half step.

For the hip I pulled a length of small intestine over the joint and `pasted` it to the neck of the joint between the eye and the thigh tube. Held in place with a cable tie till the paste cured. Then cut down the length to just cover the clevis. Then a length of single skin large intestine, long enough to be able to reach all the way up to the pelvis was bonded to the thigh tube.

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For the knee I cut a strip of double skinned colon and bonded it to a length of small intestine.

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This was then pulled up over the knee with the extra strip covering the outside of the knee bend. First bonded above the knee and allowed to cure.

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Then with the knee bent to 90 degrees and the sleeve adjusted to be not pulled tight, the bottom end was bonded in place.

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To refit the leg back into the body it was given a smear of baby oil to help it slide in pretty easily


The foot/ankle. First wrapped in zinc oxide tape. Making sure the holes for the standing bolts were clear and the entry point for a new toe wire, then given a couple of coats of paste.

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Then a length of small intestine with slits cut in one end to form a couple of flaps....

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Slid over and bonded to the clevis area, then the flaps folded over and bonded to the sole of the foot.

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Once reattached to the leg the upper end of the sleeve was bonded to the shin tube.

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The hip sleeve was pulled up over the joint and tied in place with a piece of string around the pelvis.

Going to leave things there for now, just in case. I`ll leave all wound repair till after I`ve gone through the upper skeleton, and do the toe wire then. So let`s repeat everything on the other leg and time for another photoshoot methinks.

[The Messenger]

WOW!

[Headless_Too]

That's some excellent work, it will surely pay off in the long run. I'm a fan of ingenuity, so you got 2 thumbs up from me.

[RevJack]

Shigowa, you evil genius!

You make me think, that creates questions...
Will you please share your torque settings! I swear I will measure and share all my torque settings as well, so we can build a solid library for the future.

Zinc Oxide tape, that was a surprise. Any particular reason for the Zinc Oxide, or was it just due to the need for a sturdy fibrous tape? May I assume that you tested it's compatibility with TPE?
May I also assume that wherever TPE coated Zinc Tape came into contact with doll gut that you pasted it together? This makes sense on the bones, but you left the doll-gut un-adhered to the ZO tape covering the actual joints, right? Thereby creating a safe dead space where the joint can move without directly stressing/moving TPE. Very ingenious our evil genius.

Thinking - The inside of the Doll-Gut is also coated in TPE, so the un-coated ZO tape covering the joints still has the opportunity to rub/stick/whatever to the TPE on the inside of the doll-gut. Why not leave that middle interior section uncoated to eliminate that friction?
(Of course, you are the only one who has experimented with this so experience may show there is no ZO-tape to TPE-Gut friction.)

I am really digging the joint-loose-in-the-sleeve approach.
When you re-assemble will you paste the doll-gut to the inner TPE, or leave it unattached? I believe I would try to attach the gut to the body since in my mind it would add tear resistance to the TPE due to the fibers in the gut.

Love and Respect,
Reverend Jack

[shigowa68]

Shigowa, you evil genius!

You make me think, that creates questions...
Will you please share your torque settings! I swear I will measure and share all my torque settings as well, so we can build a solid library for the future.

Zinc Oxide tape, that was a surprise. Any particular reason for the Zinc Oxide, or was it just due to the need for a sturdy fibrous tape? May I assume that you tested it's compatibility with TPE?
May I also assume that wherever TPE coated Zinc Tape came into contact with doll gut that you pasted it together? This makes sense on the bones, but you left the doll-gut un-adhered to the ZO tape covering the actual joints, right? Thereby creating a safe dead space where the joint can move without directly stressing/moving TPE. Very ingenious our evil genius.

Thinking - The inside of the Doll-Gut is also coated in TPE, so the un-coated ZO tape covering the joints still has the opportunity to rub/stick/whatever to the TPE on the inside of the doll-gut. Why not leave that middle interior section uncoated to eliminate that friction?
(Of course, you are the only one who has experimented with this so experience may show there is no ZO-tape to TPE-Gut friction.)

I am really digging the joint-loose-in-the-sleeve approach.
When you re-assemble will you paste the doll-gut to the inner TPE, or leave it unattached? I believe I would try to attach the gut to the body since in my mind it would add tear resistance to the TPE due to the fibers in the gut.

Love and Respect,
Reverend Jack

Thanks guys, I`ll to try answer some of these questions....

Torque settings....bear in mind these are down to personal preference and my main interest is posing my gals. As the legs take all the weight of the doll, I went for as tight as possible but not so tight as to be exhausting to move.

Inner hip - 84Nm
Outer hip - 68Nm
Knee twist - As tight as I could get the jam nuts, would like them to be tighter.
Knee - 52Nm both upper and lower, still get one doing all the work and seems to make little difference which.
Ankle twist - untouched
Foot attachment - Tricky. I have 2 torque wrenches. One from 5 - 25Nm, and one from 28 - 210Nm. It`s somewhere in that 25 - 28 gap

The inner hip may be a little too tight for me to be comfortable so may back this off a little.
And annoyingly one knee is noticeably looser than the other . I`ll see how things go on this next photoshoot.

Zinc Oxide tape...Just the first fibrous medical tape I tried. Experimented by doing, seemed to hold up to xylene well. Still firmly attached to the bones and TPE paste soaks in far enough to be able to build up a good layer to be able to bond the doll gut to, and yes bonded together with more TPE paste.
The doll gut is coated inside and outside with TPE paste. The first coat, thin to soak all the way through. It sticks the bandage to the `former` pipe well enough to do the folding and turning inside out. Then 2 more coats each side of thicker paste. My guide here was enough coats so the surface, once dried, no longer took on the weave pattern of the bandage. Or only just.

The unpasted ZO tape around the knee starts to move and separate as soon as you bend the knee, even if you bend the knee and apply more layers, and did`nt want to go so thick to start jamming things up on the inside of the bend, and indeed the front of the knee. Also don`t was to add so much thickness of the various layers to give her knobbly knees or fat ankles. As it happens she does now have a very slight bulge in the ankle, in the area of the jam nuts.
The knee wrapping was only pasted at the ends, the central area left clear. Mainly because I forgot to test nylocs in xylene and didn`t want to risk it. ( but cable ties hold up pretty well. All were removed once the paste had cured)
So the central area of the tape is free do what it wants, as is the doll gut. Hopefully the layers of TPE and bandage will protect the TPE body from the nuts and bolts, and the extra layer down the front of the knee is for any kneeling poses. I`ll probably do similar for the elbows and wrists.

No ZO tape on the hip, again it moves and separates. The inner gut is only bonded to the the neck on the end of the thigh tube and ends where the clevis ends so not to interfere with fitting the washers of the inner hip.
The outer gut again only bonded to the thigh tube. Getting ZO tape onto the pelvis is nigh on impossible and not even going to attempt getting TPE paste up there, hence tied off with string.

During the test shoot I did notice her calves had a tendency to sag and give her fat ankles so the plan is to bond the body to the doll gut. then the top of the foot to the foot plate, then the bottom of the foot to the footplate. Hopefully to end up with a neat cut that is easy to seal up. No xylene here, I`ll be using a 3M primer mix. Probably fleshlight for the internal bonding and WM TPE for the final closing.

Not a lot I can do, or think of to bond the the knee area. A syringe with needle? How to tell you`re at the correct depth. A syringe and a long flexible tube? How to get the tube in let alone get it in the right place?, and will it dissolve? The paste will have to be pretty thin for a syringe, thinner paste means more solvent...NOPE! A time delayed dissolving capsule attached to the knee before refitting the leg....Jeez Keep It Simple Shigowa! Leave it be.

The hip area? I`ll try do as much bonding as I feel it is safe to do. Her labia have taken a bit of a beating as it is. As long as the incisions are sealed up. If I only had the one doll my balls would be blue by now.

[seagull]

Yay! Torque setting suggestions
Now all we need is some Shore and Jiggle values

[suppy]

Great thread! thanks for the info, i am going to need it.
I tightened up a bunch of joints a few months ago,Hips/legs,shoulders,knees,ankles and neck. I had some trouble with the U bracket joint in the hip but was able to get it secure enough so Dolly was able to stand/sit again
Sadly during a build a few days ago the hips become loose again, the left leg has some side to side play as well,im sure the right one is not far behind. unable to continue the shoot i decided to open up her hip and see what is wrong
As far as i can tell the washers you referenced for the hip/u bracket are part of my problem,they are loose and will not tighten up with the nut.I can see the stud of the bolt turning with the nut so i assume the tack weld is broken inside the U bracket allowing then to turn as one and not tighten up the washers
I figure i will try and jam the head of the bolt from moving in the U bracket while the nut is tightened. Even if it does work i fear it will only become loose again and probably even faster
So realistically i will need to remove the U bracket to repair it. I gained axcess through the outer hip, i dont have the courage or skills to go through the vagina nor do i have any plans on removing the whole leg.I want to do the fix/mod in place
I will have to have a good look at your thread and decide if it is doable,what is your take on doing it in place?
This joint is so important for standing and sitting, once it is done maybe i will do the hand mods.Dolly hasn't had wire in her fingers for awhile
Cheers!

[juken7]

I have a doll with a few loose joints been thinking of trying it but to scared to do so... everything you've been able to do has encouraged me to try...

[WM dolls]

Excellent! This thread is very valuable to many people who want to fix some small problems, DIY, etc. Thank you for your efforts.

[TopModoll]

any finished products to show?

[Adam13]

This is super interesting and helpful