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Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

No matter how great your camera might be, it is how you apply your skills that makes the difference between an OK shot and a great shot. Here you can talk technical, talk creative, share your techniques, lighting, and digital editing. This is where we can all help each other to take better photos.
If you post a photo here and are looking for a critique, you should be prepared for honest criticism even if it hurts. It will only help to make us better photographers.

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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by I like blondes »

MattUK wrote:No-one's trying to win an argument or destroy you with facts and logic
What facts have you given? Literally almost every reply given they said lighting is more important. People bought up my photos, which had zero to do with lighting or cameras.

People had to say I use "photoshop" to manipulate my photos. I never felt the need to bring anyone else's name in this conversation, but since we are here, the majority of your photos in your doll thread are edited. The only thing I basically did was change lipstick color & added eyeshadow lol

If people want to prove that a camera is more important than lighting, then they should prove it. Oh wait, you don't own any lighting. I showed photos as an example to the OP. If people are going to direct their opinions towards ME, which I didn't ask for, at least they can try to back it up with examples of their work & why they believe that. Let everyone see.

Oh yeah & a mod already reached out. I told the mod to let it be. I like learning, so please give me your "facts & logic" about photography. I'll wait.
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Ztar073 »

I like blondes wrote:
MattUK wrote:No-one's trying to win an argument or destroy you with facts and logic
What facts have you given? Literally almost every reply given they said lighting is more important. People bought up my photos, which had zero to do with lighting or cameras.

People had to say I use "photoshop" to manipulate my photos. I never felt the need to bring anyone else's name in this conversation, but since we are here, the majority of your photos in your doll thread are edited. The only thing I basically did was change lipstick color & added eyeshadow lol

If people want to prove that a camera is more important than lighting, then they should prove it. Oh wait, you don't own any lighting. I showed photos as an example to the OP. If people are going to direct their opinions towards ME, which I didn't ask for, at least they can try to back it up with examples of their work & why they believe that. Let everyone see.

Oh yeah & a mod already reached out. I told the mod to let it be. I like learning, so please give me your "facts & logic" about photography. I'll wait.
(Sigh.........) given that you went to one of my doll threads and posted about lighting I guess I will continue this even though I was done.
You came into a post about camera and lighting and proceeded to show a before and after of altered photos . One of your photos shows a door and table/ dresser being removed from the picture . It doesn't matter if you are using photoshop or some other program to manipulate your photos . Its computer manipulation and thats how it looks.
I did not think this was appropriate in a discussion of camera / lights as it is not representative of the pictures you take.
No one is saying you don't have photography skill and we are not even talking about lighting . You seem quite proud of your work and you claim to have a lot of experience. The fact is, If you were that satisfied with your out of camera photos you would not alter them.
Perhaps I have become a bit jaded, but after a few years of being on this site and looking at doll pics I just disregard pictures that look fake.

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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Jimpink »

Dees luver wrote:You can have a crappy camera and lighting but if you know how to pose a lady you can make a great pic regardless, just sayin
Totally agree, doesn't really matter if the pose is right.

Tighes1 wrote:Lighting is the key. As long as the photo has good lighting, the camera doesn’t matter.
I do my shoots as complex as using my 1D camera with multiple lights and editing done in Lightroom to the opposite end of the scale of using my iPhone with natural lighting and editing on the phones photo app. It comes down to looking for a certain style and sometimes the phone is the best option. Sometimes I just can’t be assed to get the lights set up and shoot with them that’s why some of my shots are done with my phone.
Understanding light is the key. I’ve used expensive lighting equipment to light my scene, but there are some shoots that just involve one of my dolls and a window at home to get the light needed.
So, the main question here is, do you go camera first or lighting first. Neither would be the right answer until you understand how light works, not lighting, just light. I’ve even used a table lamp as my source light. It’s all about how you want your shot to look. You don’t have to be a photographer to do that.
Think about how you want the shot to look and you will figure out what will be best. I’m in no way ashamed, as a professional photographer, to say I use a phone for some shots, it’s all about convenience and what will give the best result.

Here’s a couple of examples of photos shot on iPhone and photos taken with multiple studio lights. Both shots have appeal and give a certain result, but in my mind, are equally as good as each other. Just a different approach to equipment.

So in my mind lighting is paramount over what camera is used.

Tighes
Well said and excellent pictures to back it up!

I will say this based on replies in the thread where the majority suggest lighting is key and more important than a good camera. Also as the OP, something that took me a while to work out! As you say above Tighes, understanding how lighting works and how it can affect your pictures is more pertinent to the actual purchase of say studio photography lighting equipment.

What I have learned whilst being colour blind, a fact nobody thus far has really acknowledged, is that my purchase of lighting was integral to achieving much better picture results not just because it improved my lighting capabilities in the current set up but it also reduced the yellowy orange glow coming from my regular home lighting which I had failed to notice because of the said blindness to colour. After learning b/w film photography at college then continuing to study into colour film photography at university, the inability to spot colour hues that shouldn't be there is the main reason why I didn't follow a career into professional photography which is a shame as I love it so.

The lighting I now have coupled with the basic "pro" settings on my camera phone, mainly the white balance adjuster, means I'm now much happier with the final picture production. Please refer to the now WORKING link below to Amy's Eye Candy thread and judge for yourselves.

So to sum up lighting was more important for me than an expensive camera, though eventually I'll probably end up with one of those too...also another addition on the post editing conversation, I've tried this too but with not so great results, one more win for colour blindness there.
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by MattUK »

I like blondes wrote:
MattUK wrote:No-one's trying to win an argument or destroy you with facts and logic
What facts have you given? Literally almost every reply given they said lighting is more important.
This is an odd response when I just said no-ones trying to win an argument or destroy you with facts. I don't really know what facts you think I even should be giving. I am giving my opinion, as requested by the OP. It doesn't matter how many other people agree or disagree with my opinion, because as I said we're not trying to win a definitive argument, we're trying to give our opinions to the OP. Surely you're not suggesting that if an opinion is in the minority it shouldn't be given to such a request?
If people want to prove that a camera is more important than lighting, then they should prove it. Oh wait, you don't own any lighting. I showed photos as an example to the OP. If people are going to direct their opinions towards ME, which I didn't ask for, at least they can try to back it up with examples of their work & why they believe that. Let everyone see.
Why are you so obsessed with proof and facts and winning? The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine. I apologise if I addressed you instead of him, but you are acting a bit like a bull in a china shop so you will attract comments.
I like learning, so please give me your "facts & logic" about photography. I'll wait.
Again, what are you even asking for? I've given my opinion, with reasoning. You honestly don't come across as someone who likes learning or listening to other people, I have to say.

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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Willus »

Hi Jimpink

I think my weakest point is lighting, but I don't plan on getting any of the stuff these guys are recommending.

I'm going to get a couple of Philips Hue bulbs - they look waaaay more flexible and capable of fun stuff.

You can get nice lighting from all sorts of places, my entry into last month's cat B photo challenge was lit by the TV and people seemed to like it, although I guess lighting it like that was appropriate given the context of the picture.

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Anyway - cameras. Back in 2017 when I bought my camera my buddy who is super into photography recommended the Canon EOS M3 to me. He said it was in his opinion the best of the DSLR cameras that didn't cost crazy money. It was £450 back then. Cool camera, but I still haven't learned what half the options on it do! ;)

I recently got a Samsung Galaxy S20, haven't taken many pictures with it yet so I can't really comment on the image quality compared to my camera, but I think I prefer taking pics with a camera. I guess I'm just old and like having buttons to press.


Also - did you check out Paint.net yet?
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by itashaLover »

Willus wrote: my buddy who is super into photography recommended the Canon EOS M3 to me. He said it was in his opinion the best of the DSLR cameras that didn't cost crazy money. It was £450 back then. Cool camera, but I still haven't learned what half the options on it do! ;)
Buddy is so much into photography that he's still saying EOS M3 is a DSLR?)
kidding
What lens are you using with it?

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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Jimpink »

Willus wrote:Hi Jimpink

I think my weakest point is lighting, but I don't plan on getting any of the stuff these guys are recommending.

I'm going to get a couple of Philips Hue bulbs - they look waaaay more flexible and capable of fun stuff.

You can get nice lighting from all sorts of places, my entry into last month's cat B photo challenge was lit by the TV and people seemed to like it, although I guess lighting it like that was appropriate given the context of the picture.

Image


Anyway - cameras. Back in 2017 when I bought my camera my buddy who is super into photography recommended the Canon EOS M3 to me. He said it was in his opinion the best of the DSLR cameras that didn't cost crazy money. It was £450 back then. Cool camera, but I still haven't learned what half the options on it do! ;)

I recently got a Samsung Galaxy S20, haven't taken many pictures with it yet so I can't really comment on the image quality compared to my camera, but I think I prefer taking pics with a camera. I guess I'm just old and like having buttons to press.


Also - did you check out Paint.net yet?
Hey Willus,

I think your pictures perfectly explain the argument that lighting isn't always necessary if you can achieve the pose well, which you do very well! The lack of lighting here only accentuates the realness of your pictures and definitely gives them a warm likeness that would be hard to replicate with professional equipment, hard but not impossible.

As for cameras I've looked at a few similar to that Canon and in the same price range so I'll add this model to the list. I'm with you on the buttons though, physical pressing of them is critical to maximum satisfaction. This is why I still record onto cassette and carry a walkman!

I'll have a go at Paint.net this weekend, still waiting for some of Amy's cyber outfit to arrive before I embark on that challenge...
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Willus »

jimpink wrote:Hey Willis,

I think your pictures perfectly explain the argument that lighting isn't always necessary if you can achieve the pose well, which you do very well! The lack of lighting here only accentuates the realness of your pictures and definitely gives them a warm likeness that would be hard to replicate with professional equipment, hard but not impossible.

As for cameras I've looked at a few similar to that Canon and in the same price range so I'll add this model to the list. I'm with you on the buttons though, physical pressing of them is critical to maximum satisfaction. This is why I still record onto cassette and carry a walkman!

I'll have a go at Paint.net this weekend, still waiting for some of Amy's cyber outfit to arrive before I embark on that challenge...
I think the 3 most important things in doll photography are posing, lighting and camera angles. Sure other stuff is important too, but if you nail 2 out of 3 of those then the pictures will be pretty awesome.

My Canon is actually pretty small compared to a lot of other cameras, which I like. It's easy to take out without needing to carry stupid big bags. Quite practical.

I'm sure someone will disagree with me about paint.net, but I like it a lot more than Gimp. It doesn't have a lot of the features that you'd find in something like photoshop, but it's decent and easy to use.

I'm excited to see what you end up doing for the cybernetics challenge! This thread reminded me to order the Philips Hue bulbs I was talking about. I have a background image ready to go, but I'm going to need coloured lights to get Macks to sit right in it...
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by ChaXen »

Willus wrote:Hi Jimpink

I think my weakest point is lighting, but I don't plan on getting any of the stuff these guys are recommending.

I'm going to get a couple of Philips Hue bulbs - they look waaaay more flexible and capable of fun stuff.
While my statement was that lighting is critical, I hope I didn't come across as meaning every shot has to be blinding, lol.

Proper lighting with the given atmosphere is like, "the cherry on top".

Excellent photo you shared!
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by johnraymk »

strange choice for me. The lighting cost a penny compared to a camera and a lens. Although I bought a camera first anyway. Because I can take not bad photos in a poorly lit room, without a tripod and outside a home. Professional photography is needed more for those who make money from it or want to compete in the quality of photographs with others

Well, or I'm too new to photography and don't understand something important

I will improve the quality of photographs, but without haste, since the process of studying itself sometimes gives me pleasure, as long as I like the photograph itself, everything suits me

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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by Willus »

ChaXen wrote:
Willus wrote:Hi Jimpink

I think my weakest point is lighting, but I don't plan on getting any of the stuff these guys are recommending.

I'm going to get a couple of Philips Hue bulbs - they look waaaay more flexible and capable of fun stuff.
While my statement was that lighting is critical, I hope I didn't come across as meaning every shot has to be blinding, lol.

Proper lighting with the given atmosphere is like, "the cherry on top".

Excellent photo you shared!
Thanks for the compliment, but you've touched on exactly why I'm getting those bulbs.

I have a couple of tripod mounted spotlights I inherited from my old office. The problem is that the bulbs are incredibly bright, and I haven't got any control over that. When I use those lights as they are every shot is blinding!

I'm replacing the bulbs with Hue bulbs because those offer complete control over colour and brightness. If my theory is correct I doubt I'll need much more than those to light stuff any way I want, except maybe a diffuser.

Anyway, I've wanted some of those bulbs for aaages, not just for photography.
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Re: Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Post by I like blondes »

New lighting. Using 2 $60 LED light sticks. Still using my phone for photos. Lighting > camera lol
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