Old Skeletons & New Flexi Edition Skeletons

Mike+Sanhui · Post by **Mike+Sanhui** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:13 am

Hey guys,

I'm very sorry to see the skeleton issues happened in the past two weeks, we just want to assure you that SANHUI will always stand behind our products and we are working on those cases now. One thing we hope you'll also keep in mind is we've sold a lot of dolls in the past six months and skeleton issues barely happened, it's pure coincidence to see them happen at the same time, I guess we'll just utilize it as a way for us to promote our new Flexi Edition skeleton, which is more durable and way stronger.

I've also checked with our engineers that the issues happened on our old skeletons (Which barely happened as I mentioned above) will not happen on our new Flexi Edition skeletons. We'll post more detailed information regarding the skeleton improvement in the near future. I know It's concerning to see all the negative feedback, but you should not lose your confidence in SANHUI nor our products.

Please let me know if you have any questions about our products, we'll always be here to offer help.

Mike.

Pabzilla · Post by **Pabzilla** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:00 am

Hi Mike, my sanhui 158 (Shione) is the same age and ball joint skeleton as the ones that are breaking.
These stories have really dented my confidence in her.
When she arrived with me her hip joints were very tight, almost immovable, but they have loosens up OK.
Her back joint is still very tight as its not a joint I move as often as the hips.
I'm very attached to my wonderful sanhui doll and I'm rather scared now she will break.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:23 am

My Sanhui lady is a treasured doll and gives no indication of fragility.

The important thing is that when quality control slips, as it can even in the best organisations, a company sorts out the problem for a customer, and in the main this happens without anyone even hearing about it. It's only when something really slips through the net that we hear about it on TDF and because of a manufacturer's affiliation and participation on TDF problems are usually resolved satisfactorily all the way round.

The new skeleton sounds exciting!

Best wishes

Harem

HappyWabbit · Post by **HappyWabbit** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:32 am

Old Skeletons & New Flexibly Edition Skeletons

Old must be a relative term then, the Skeletons that are breaking and have other issues are the Newer Ball Jointed Skeletons that are less than a year old. Hopefully this info in your sentence

( We'll post more detailed information regarding the skeleton improvement in the near future.)

Will be very convincing

MANABU · Post by **MANABU** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:59 am

Hi there Mike and Sanhui owners.

I just received my 168 flexi skeleton 2 days ago. We are still enjoying our honeymoon. A doll review will be coming soon. I just want to add that I have full confidence in Mikes and Sanhuis costomer care. I NEVER had to wait longer than 20 hours for a reply from Mike. There was an issue in the factory that delayed my doll and again it was handled swiftly and fairly. I AM A SANHUI FANBOY because of this.

SKELETONS.... I humbly request from either Sanhui or a doll veteran to show or post some tips on how to MOVE AND MANOEUVRE the limbs and skeleton in the safest forms possible. ESPESCIALLY bending her back. I have read different methods on the forums but no standard. This is my second doll and second Sanhui. I read the forums for months before my first doll absorbing every tip i could. However when it came to handling my silicone lover it was trial and error.

For example I dont do doggy style because I cant figure a way to get her into position without being rough on her trying to keep her wrists safe and the weight on the elbows and knees at the same time.

Anyway, i feel like an illustrated guide with step by step instructions would help a lot. Yes a lot of it is common sense. But not all of it.

Keep Dolling,
MANABU

Nord · Post by **Nord** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:32 am

I would very much like to hear, and preferably see, specifically about improvements along the spine, how it is stronger than before. Stating that it is more durable overall is quite vague in this case.

Also, is it the ball joint that is breaking, or just bad welds? Welds should be strong if done professionally. If not then whoever is doing that work is doing it wrong.

And of course, if the standard version of the skeleton have not gotten any improvements at all, then it's probably a good idea to only offer the Flexi instead until this issue is fixed. Seems to me that these past experiences with broken backs will haunt that particular version of the skeleton forever here now.

I have been following Sanhui development for several years now and I have never seen peoples views on Sanhui flip this bad here before. I hope for quick actions to reassure quality. Visual proof and explanations would be best.

MANABU wrote: SKELETONS.... I humbly request from either Sanhui or a doll veteran to show or post some tips on how to MOVE AND MANOEUVRE the limbs and skeleton in the safest forms possible. ESPESCIALLY bending her back. I have read different methods on the forums but no standard. This is my second doll and second Sanhui. I read the forums for months before my first doll absorbing every tip i could. However when it came to handling my silicone lover it was trial and error.

For example I dont do doggy style because I cant figure a way to get her into position without being rough on her trying to keep her wrists safe and the weight on the elbows and knees at the same time.

Anyway, i feel like an illustrated guide with step by step instructions would help a lot. Yes a lot of it is common sense. But not all of it.

Keep Dolling,
MANABU

Problem is that it depends so much on what angle you're able to approach from. There is always the officially safest way, but then that can be hard in some situations, like if the doll is sitting in a chair vs in the middle of a bed, or if she's standing vs sitting vs laying down, etc.

Most important thing imo is to be aware of exactly where on the spine the joint is. This because if you don't know where the back will bend, it's easy to get frustrated and use too much force when it's not behaving as expected, and it will feel a lot more stiff than it actually is because you're working from a bad angle. Especially on taller dolls you can get a LOT of unnecessary force if approaching from a far end.

In my first case, with a WM140, I had problems with bending the back joint at first, and the only explanation I could come up with was that it was just too stiff. A while later I got it bent by accident when fooling around, and was surprised by how far up on the spine the joint was, compared to where I first assumed based on how the upper body would twist to the sides. After that it was never a problem to work that joint, as I could adjust my position to the joint area and add less but more effective force from both sides.

So, to explain my method better; Let's say I want to bend my dolls back forward. I place myself behind the doll, put a hand on her stomach at the same height as the joint, and then gently push her forward with my chest against her upper back and shoulders, while my hand at her front is gently pushing back against me. The hand on her stomach will help bending the joint inwards and prevent unnecessary force elsewhere. Same method works the other way around to bend backwards. I highly recommend to always make sure her upper body is not twisted to the sides first. Twist after you bent the back.

Note however that this is my experience with hinged skeletons. I have yet to work with ball joints, which may behave differently. But either way I still think it is of great importance to first locate the joint position, which should make thing a lot easier. Use the belly button or breasts of the doll as reference points to remember more easily. An up-to-date picture of the skeleton from Sanhui would definitely be of help here.

But of course this is not a magic solution to bad welds (if that would be the case). I work with machines for a living and have seen plenty of disastrous examples of such weak spots. Such a flaw could break even by a dolls own weight, which seems to be a regular case on cheap copies for example.

MANABU · Post by **MANABU** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:04 am

Nord, thanks for your reply and talking the time to share advice. It helps.

With my last doll, if i wanted to bend her back backwards i would roll her so she is laying on her front. I would either gently sit on her buttcks but making my knees take my weight off her. Then i would gently pull he shoulders back or pull her back with my hands around her neck. Gently and gentlemanly for her sake. What do u think about this method?

Nord · Post by **Nord** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:41 am

MANABU wrote:Nord, thanks for your reply and talking the time to share advice. It helps.

With my last doll, if i wanted to bend her back backwards i would roll her so she is laying on her front. I would either gently sit on her buttcks but making my knees take my weight off her. Then i would gently pull he shoulders back or pull her back with my hands around her neck. Gently and gentlemanly for her sake. What do u think about this method?

Problem with that, if I understand correctly, is that you're pulling the whole spine against you until the joint decides to react, which is a lot of unnecessary and unfocused force, especially considering that the joint is likely not in the middle. It's probably no biggie for a joint that isn't too stiff, but if this is a problem then I highly suggest to add that counter force in the opposite direction to the joint, which will have it fold much more easily and controlled. That's the key in my method, which can be applied in many positions.

So in your position maybe use your whole arm around the front of her shoulders to pull her against you, and keep the other arm or hand on her back against that joint. Depends on your balance

I'm just pulling that out of my head though, so be careful.

But if the doll is laying down you also have to make sure her arms are in a high or flat out angle, because in their natural position they will swing down against the mattress as the upper back is pulled back. This can be disastrous for finger wires!

For reference, below is a picture from last year of Sanhui's skeleton when they had just upgraded to ball joints. I don't know if this is the exact same design as with the "old skeletons" that have broken recently. But just as a relatively relatable example, you can see that where the spines joint is welded to the U-shaped waist area, we have a potentially weak spot if it's a bad weld. If the joint is stiff, and you pull the back from the shoulders, sitting on her butt, you put a lot of stress on that area until either the joint bends or the weld breaks. If you put a hand on the joint however, to counter the pull, you're not bending the whole spine in an arch anymore, but focusing force on the joint that is supposed to bend naturally.

: sanhui_skeleton_2018_01.jpg (312.48 KiB) Viewed 2145 times

This skeleton looks like it's from a 118 or 145 doll though, so the joint is likely in a bit different spot on a taller skeleton, and generally more robust.

Also, almost all manufacturers have a weld in that area on their skeletons, so lets not jump to ideas that this is the problem or something unique to Sanhui.

MANABU · Post by **MANABU** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:56 am

cool, thanks again Nord!!

Doll Master · Post by **Doll Master** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:06 am

I just want to say that I think Sanhui is one of the BEST doll makers in the industry as far as aesthetics.

Beautiful dolls, beautiful faces, and great accuracy in terms of anatomical detail.

The 160cm AIO is without a doubt unmatched for my tastes (fit, attractive, athletic, and very feminine).

That's why it is so hard to hear this news. I really don't want to have to pass on a Sanhui just because of a flawed skeleton design.

Is the new flexi skeleton strong and dependable? (it's the one in the 160cm AIO)

I WANT to pay Sanhui thousands of $$$ and have a Marya doll. But, unless there is real, specific, and convincing evidence that this cannot and will not happen for future buyers, then I really can't justify a purchase.

The doll has to last AT LEAST a year for it to even be a viable choice for prospective buyers. People don't opt for fully detailed silicone dolls with tons of customization and upgrades unless they can trust the manufacturer 100%. There are also problems with shipping a doll back and forth thousands of miles if something does go wrong. I don't even want to think about doing surgery on a broken doll.....

Thank you Sanhui and Mike and all doll forum members. I am still a huge fan of these dolls and want to see your company succeed in the future.

gary399932 · Post by **gary399932** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:11 am

They should setup something that repeatedly bends a test doll back and forth endlessly, like big industry does. Just do a simpler/cheaper version or something. Then just have a few dolls hanging out in the corner being manhandled by servos all day. Then you'd have a lot more confidence in your builds.

Dingo Pie · Post by **Dingo Pie** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:22 am

I wonder how many of these are actually damaged during transportation. I reckon a majority of the doll boxes are dragged and dropped by careless couriers or even stacked the wrong way. I've seen people open the doll boxes with bent necks, pushed up feet, squashed tits etc.

Even though they are packed with foam the impact or orientation of the box is bound to some kind of damage.

MannyCan · Post by **MannyCan** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:06 pm

MANABU wrote:Hi there Mike and Sanhui owners.

SKELETONS.... I humbly request from either Sanhui or a doll veteran to show or post some tips on how to MOVE AND MANOEUVRE the limbs and skeleton in the safest forms possible. ESPESCIALLY bending her back. I have read different methods on the forums but no standard. This is my second doll and second Sanhui. I read the forums for months before my first doll absorbing every tip i could. However when it came to handling my silicone lover it was trial and error.

Dear MIKE and SANHUI
I really urge Sanhui to publish some pictures of its skeletons. This REALLY helps users SEE how to bend the joints of their dolls. You can easy pull or push in the wrong place if you don't see how the joints are made. Or more commonly, you can push THINKING that's where the joint is, but its not. Especially when dolls have tightness, its easy to mess up and push in a place (or a direction) where you're not supposed to.

: Other Skeletons.jpg (127.89 KiB) Viewed 1983 times

PLEASE PLEASE Post some photos of the skeletons. This gives used a real reference on where they should bending.

MANABU · Post by **MANABU** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:28 pm

MannyCan wrote:
MANABU wrote:
Dear MIKE and SANHUI
I really urge Sanhui to publish some pictures of its skeletons. This REALLY helps users SEE how to bend the joints of their dolls. You can easy pull or push in the wrong place if you don't see how the joints are made. Or more commonly, you can push THINKING that's where the joint is, but its not. Especially when dolls have tightness, its easy to mess up and push in a place (or a direction) where you're not supposed to.
Other Skeletons.jpg
PLEASE PLEASE Post some photos of the skeletons. This gives used a real reference on where they should bending.

There is a great tutorial video on how to insert the head on to the doll on the Sanhui website. If you added skeleton tips and pics you could post the link to the page in every email for completed sales. You wouldnt have to print pictures and add them to doll boxes.