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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:24 am 
Doll Guru
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Posts: 6938
Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
So, I assume:
Mini pneumatic actuators chosen based on bore and stroke length for assigned task.
Valving can control actuator speed rate in and out.
Hose and air supply tank.

What is the control system that tells which actuator to act and when to act?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I understand about Arduino/ Micro controllers and servo's.
DC powered Arduino and servo's.
Arduino can be programmed to control several servo's via wiring.
Each servo can can be programmed for:
Length of stroke based on it's size.
Power of stroke based on it's size.
Speed of stroke.
When to stroke.
Servo activation can also include a synchronized audio loop.

Servo sequences can be set up on a continuous loop cycle by on/off switch.
Individual servos can be trigger activated by Joystick, touch sensor, motion sensor, etc.



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Posts: 934
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rubherkitty wrote:
So, I assume:
Mini pneumatic actuators chosen based on bore and stroke length for assigned task.
Valving can control actuator speed rate in and out.
Hose and air supply tank.

What is the control system that tells which actuator to act and when to act?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I understand about Arduino/ Micro controllers and servo's.
DC powered Arduino and servo's.
Arduino can be programmed to control several servo's via wiring.
Each servo can can be programmed for:
Length of stroke based on it's size.
Power of stroke based on it's size.
Speed of stroke.
When to stroke.
Servo activation can also include a synchronized audio loop.

Servo sequences can be set up on a continuous loop cycle by on/off switch.
Individual servos can be trigger activated by Joystick, touch sensor, motion sensor, etc.


Well, I would use a different brand like Adafruit first: https://www.adafruit.com/category/851

One of the feather series with wireless or low energy Bluetooth will suffice.

That's what I have for my own project.

I'm still scratching my head over the best valve design. I like a leaf valve for now. However, my servos haven't arrived as of yet.

As for how a pneumatic 'piston' would work, it's about air pressure in PSI and the surface area it's acting on.

I'm designing inflatable accordion (origami) pistons for the job.

The other kind of piston might be a better fit for a doll's face however. That's a vacuum piston.

Regardless, it's no small task to do even the simplest of motions when it comes to a doll's face or body.



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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:03 pm 
Doll Guru
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Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
Thanks and thanks for taking on the R&D.
I do agree that pneumatics may be a great alternative.
Kind of depends upon tank life. If a person is just using 2 mini actuators for blinking eye lids and a little mouth movement, a bottle may last a very long time.

A larger pneumatic actuator might be able to operate a hip function too vs a large 12v motor like what I was thinking.
A pneumatic system should also not create the heat that electrical servo's would.



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Posts: 934
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What I find challenging is that every single step in the pipeline to producing a robot/android involves taking the state of the art of many different fields and modifying them.

I've had to examine things like paintball tanks, super capacitors (no lithium scenario), microcontroller boards, 3D printing options, CAD software.

The design of the pneumatic actuators is almost to the point where I can 3D design it, slice it, then print it.

I've still got some design issues to solve, but they're minor.

So, the 2 axis, 3D printed, pneumatic joint actuator design looks almost finished.

However, what truly surprised me was that a simple 'Bone' pneumatic actuator is possible as well.

I plan on connecting the joints with PVC tubes (the bones) and making a pneumatic piston in a PVC pipe is a no brainer.

But, they require running 'wires' to actuate the joints properly.

Frankly, the bone type of actuator could work well in the 'skull' of a doll if you can find a way to connect the wires to the dolls face properly.



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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Virginia
rubherkitty wrote:
So, I assume:
Mini pneumatic actuators chosen based on bore and stroke length for assigned task.
Valving can control actuator speed rate in and out.
Hose and air supply tank.

What is the control system that tells which actuator to act and when to act?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I understand about Arduino/ Micro controllers and servo's.
DC powered Arduino and servo's.
Arduino can be programmed to control several servo's via wiring.
Each servo can can be programmed for:
Length of stroke based on it's size.
Power of stroke based on it's size.
Speed of stroke.
When to stroke.
Servo activation can also include a synchronized audio loop.

Servo sequences can be set up on a continuous loop cycle by on/off switch.
Individual servos can be trigger activated by Joystick, touch sensor, motion sensor, etc.


The micro controllers, separate from your Arduino board, can handle the task of actuating your servos, the provide feedback to your main Arduino/Beaglebone/RaPi/etc, through I2C/other communications.

Here's an example of something I am working: Arduino mini pro (AMP) 1 is taking in data from several linear softpot pressure sensors (or capacitive field sensors) wrapped (or placed) around the core of my doll's vagina. Depending on which sensor or sensors are reading pressure, gives me an indirect location of my penis. AMP 2 is controlling servos that can tighten or relax wire wrapped around the circumference of the cavity. My main Arduino board is receiving feedback from both devices, and sending commands to AMP 2 to tighten or relax the different wires; maybe choosing different preprogrammed sequences based on where your junk is inside the vagina.

The same process and sensors can be used in the head for the mouth.

I hate to mutilate my doll in the name of progress, so I'm synching myself for when that day comes.



_____________________________
We are truly in an age of doll expansion. Sure it's the wild west, with each manufacturer trying to out do one another and society still poo-pooing dolls, but eventually, the age will mature, order will be found and one day we can bring out ladies anywhere.
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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:27 am 
Doll Guru
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:24 pm
Posts: 6938
Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
RE: linear softpot pressure sensors. Nice. Wasn't aware of them.

Why can't you run your system off 1 large Arduino?

Your doll TPE or silicone?

If I get into this for real, I will probably make a silicone skinned foam filled doll. 1/2 back zip so I can roll the skin down to the hips and wrist for maintenance.



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Virginia
rubherkitty wrote:
RE: linear softpot pressure sensors. Nice. Wasn't aware of them.

Why can't you run your system off 1 large Arduino?

Your doll TPE or silicone?

If I get into this for real, I will probably make a silicone skinned foam filled doll. 1/2 back zip so I can roll the skin down to the hips and wrist for maintenance.


Softpot
https://www.adafruit.com/product/178

What is nice about the sensors is they can tell where along the sensor you're touching/applying force. So you could have one that runs the length of the cavity, so the board knows if the tip is in or you're all in. Could make the doll reaponses more realistic; like "stop teasing me" or "ugh so full". You get the drift. What would be really fun! Place some on the back and run your fingers up and down her back! Imagine having her ooh, ahh and sigh.

I'll be putting force flex sensors all over the place to help the doll sense the environment. In the fingers, they will be good feedback so the doll doesn't grip too hard. In the butt, so when you slap or knead a cheek she reacts appropriately. Maybe the feet if you wanna tickle, but mainly for feedback for walking.

Force Flex
https://www.adafruit.com/product/182

They make peristatic pumps which would be a good application for running lube to the orifices. The more turned on, the faster the pump works. Could have a great visual from dripping. For the mouth, the pump discharge could be at the salivary gland under the tongue. Even those who want to express 'milk' from the nipples. That would be a challenge to not affect how the nipples feel though.

Peristatic pump
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1150

They make a circular version that would work perfectly below a nipple.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1069

I want to incorporate talking/moaning/slurping/gagging eventually, so there would be another microcontroller in the head for the speaker and mouth movements.

As to why not run off of one board: In electronics, and this is how it's called, there's always a 'master-slave' relationship between the processor and devices/sensors. If one board has everything coming in and out, there will be processing speed issues and huge power draws. To remedy this, I have my middle man. 'Master Slave/Master Slave', or Arduino mini-pro/mini-pro device/sensor.



_____________________________
We are truly in an age of doll expansion. Sure it's the wild west, with each manufacturer trying to out do one another and society still poo-pooing dolls, but eventually, the age will mature, order will be found and one day we can bring out ladies anywhere.
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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:30 pm 
Doll Guru
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Posts: 6938
Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
OK, on the controller question. I thought you just planned on a few sensors, not a dozen! :lol:

Thanks for the info & links. :thumbs_up:



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:59 pm 
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rubherkitty wrote:
OK, on the controller question. I thought you just planned on a few sensors, not a dozen! :lol:
Thanks for the info & links. :thumbs_up:


Even though AI will be involved until the 'model' is trained, I am exploring using ultrasonic emitters and sensors to not only help train the model for movement, and position/posing, but to see if it can detect pressure, etc..

It may sound far fetched, but the way AI does speech recognition by analyzing sound patterns, it could be trained to do other things besides recognize speech. It could recognize ultrasonic sound patterns to detect position, pressure, etc..

The idea being, you don' have to wire up the doll with dozens of sensors.

But, it's still just an idea at this time.



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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:38 am 
Doll Guru
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Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
Yeah, I can see an advanced sexbot knowing just what motion to take on when she, or he, is put in a certain position.

I have thought that I would prefer the blinking eyes and mouth motion to be much slower than the usual servo snap open & snap close that is fairly common. It appears they make inline speed reducers for common DC servo's. :thumbs_up:



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:16 am 
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Just a thought: I have two TPE dolls, but I've never dared to take the head and separate the outer TPE from the 'skull' core.

So, while there may be some room inside an existing dolls head for some modifications, I'm not sure that we can fasten or adhere anything to the TPE successfully.



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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:43 am 
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I plan to make a silicone head from scratch w/ hinged jaw so the skull design will have to be mated to my animatronic components. Not sure if the skull will be some type of molded resin or fiberglass mat and resin. Maybe fiberglass as that might be stronger than cast resin.

Knowing how involved this will end up being, I probably should set up some type of eye movement since I'm there. Optical tracking would be optimal rather than having the eyes looking off in odd directions randomly.



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
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 Post subject: Pneumatic Pillow
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:15 am 
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I started writing a response for a project idea here but decided it would be more appropriate to put it over on this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=103553&p=1363859#p1363859



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 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Posts: 331
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rubherkitty wrote:
I plan to make a silicone head from scratch w/ hinged jaw so the skull design will have to be mated to my animatronic components. Not sure if the skull will be some type of molded resin or fiberglass mat and resin. Maybe fiberglass as that might be stronger than cast resin.

Knowing how involved this will end up being, I probably should set up some type of eye movement since I'm there. Optical tracking would be optimal rather than having the eyes looking off in odd directions randomly.


If you plan on optical tracking, I highly recommend a Pixy Camera

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1906?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtb_bBRCFARIsAO5fVvHe_tYXmfGf9xrorQSW_Hg5FCcux-IZ_nomgJy4d5bcNkzeFupfhBEaAoTHEALw_wcB

There's a lot of support online for object tracking and facial recognition. If you're very proficient with a shouldering iron, you could detach the camera from the board, mount the camera in the eye and reconnect with wires. The board features servo mounts, usually for attaching a gimbal, but the code could be adapted for eye movement.



_____________________________
We are truly in an age of doll expansion. Sure it's the wild west, with each manufacturer trying to out do one another and society still poo-pooing dolls, but eventually, the age will mature, order will be found and one day we can bring out ladies anywhere.
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Facial movements without AI. Blinking eyes & mouth movem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:20 pm 
Doll Guru
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:24 pm
Posts: 6938
Location: Prowling the deep dark woods, looking for cute little dollies.
Pixy camera. Thanks. Interesting item. Probably a little more complex than even what I need. Figured by now, the robo tech people would have come up w/a independent wired mini cam that could plug into a control board.



_____________________________
It was a warm full moon night and the calling I did fight.
My hunger I did brood while waiting for some food.
A sheep would be my taste and no part would I dare waste.
But the hunt is now appalling as I hear a voice a calling.

A girl "Sheepy, where are you?"

Who can that be? Out late and so care free.
She has lost her sheep. It's Little Bo Peep!
She's not much a meal, but my belly say's we'll deal.

"Sheepy, Sheepy?"

Now she's coming my way. Is she here for play?
I quickly take her down like a rag upon the ground.

"Don't eat me Mr Wolfie"

Why should I not, fairly you've been caught?
She turned and flipped her skirt. Bo Peep is such a flirt.
No panties sealed my fate, dinner will have to wait.
Wolfie I'm known by sight, but it's Doggy I'm playing tonight!
 Profile Send private message  
 
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