Flexible sensors for sexier dolls

[AIMD]

In some other posts the use of sensors for interaction with dolls has come up and I thought there might be a way of creating flexible sensors which could be embedded in a doll.
There are many tutorials on the internet on how to make graphite capacitive/pressure sensors and those ideas could be applied here. Embed graphite in a TPE matrix creating a capacitive element whose resistance/signal strength can be measured and route those signals to a controller as feedback. For example in the following picture there are four capacitive ring sensors embedded in the vaginal canal, the speed and pressure of each thrust passing each sensor will determine how the doll reacts as in wanting "harder", "faster", "softer", "deeper", moaning, voicing, etc., according to a microcontroller receiving the signals and then sending them to an analytical unit. Flatter sensors could be embedded in lips, skin, etc. and react to pressure or nearness (like a Thermin) and once again the doll could react in an appropriate manner (probably using some form of AI).
But what also could possibly be done is using the graphite as capacitive layers and then charging them with a high volt/low amp charge somewhat like a HASEL actuator (soft muscle) and causing the graphite actuators to expand or contract depending on the polarity of the charges. (Think vaginal walls gripping and squeezing similar to this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtE7lTFXQI).
Not sure how this will work (basically graphite dumped in molten TPE for starters) but it might be something worth looking into. Let me know what you think.

vaginal_sensors.jpg (126.43 KiB) Viewed 1874 times

[Technician]

One very old Robotics trick was to use ESD foam for pressure sensing, it changes it's resistance as it's compressed. It was typically sandwiched between two strips of copper clad board and then covered in heat shrink tubing. No reason that couldn't be flexible with copper tape instead of rigid phenolic board.

Also there's the metal detector concept, one coil is effectively transmitting a frequency and another is receiving it, when a hunk of metal is near, the tuning of the coils is disrupted.
So applying that to a pair of graphite embedded antennas I wonder if deforming the graphite would de-tune them in a similar way. Or simply using the graphite as a capacitive touch sensor antenna like you presented in your Bluetooth thread.

[AIMD]

I only have a very basic knowledge of electronics but could a graphite strip resistor/sensor be made with various tap points to measure resistance/capacitance as the sensor deforms? Not sure if the strip would give false readings along its length as it flexes--it might be better to place smaller individual sensors along the canal. Of course this type of sensor is not only for the vaginal canal but is used in this manner to illustrate aspects of touch such as pressure and speed. I also wonder if the graphite strip could be used as a capacitive antenna, such as the metal detector concept (or Thermin, or phone screens) since our bodies are electrical in nature, or could the sensor possibly be used in a dual nature for both pressure and capacitive? I think the key here is the graphite embedded in a flexible matrix where the graphite spacing changes as the matrix deforms.

vaginal_strip_sensor.jpg (88.67 KiB) Viewed 1655 times

[AIMD]

One very old Robotics trick was to use ESD foam for pressure sensing, it changes it's resistance as it's compressed. It was typically sandwiched between two strips of copper clad board and then covered in heat shrink tubing. No reason that couldn't be flexible with copper tape instead of rigid phenolic board.

Also there's the metal detector concept, one coil is effectively transmitting a frequency and another is receiving it, when a hunk of metal is near, the tuning of the coils is disrupted.
So applying that to a pair of graphite embedded antennas I wonder if deforming the graphite would de-tune them in a similar way. Or simply using the graphite as a capacitive touch sensor antenna like you presented in your Bluetooth thread.

I honestly won't use copper any more due to reactivity with rubber and polymers as detailed by Ant999 and Wheezer in this post: viewtopic.php?t=178310. Aluminium foil/screen or stainless steel strips/screen might work just as well without the associated problems. Not sure about the heat shrink tubing but TPE and silicone are known to degrade some types of wire coverings. Not saying not to try but I'm just going for what is deemed safe for now.

For the antenna idea if transmitter and receiver antennas were placed opposite each other anything passing between them would alter the receiver value. After all, for those who don't know, this is how Radar was discovered during WWII. We now have incredibly small transmitters/receivers in the form of Bluetooth dongles and whether the 2.4 ghz wavelength would register the interruption I don't know but 5 ghz is a lot more sensitive to this kind of thing and Bluetooth wouldn't require running many electrical lines through a body as the information would be transmitted wirelessly. Still would need a local power source though.

[SinsuaLuvr]

Interesting and conceptually seems reasonable. Developing a means of passively using/transferring thrust pressure into a reactive constricting motion would be a game changer and huge increase in realism. I’d recommend keeping electronics out of it at first but I understand how it could be used for vocal feedback or other reactions.

Maybe a manufacturer will pick up your concept or it may take some collaboration with some other members. There are some very talented and smart people here that have come up with some amazing improvements. Some have even been directly implemented into dolls or offered as options. Some have lots of experience pouring molds and working with TPE or silicone.

Very interested to see how this progresses!

[AIMD]

Interesting and conceptually seems reasonable. Developing a means of passively using/transferring thrust pressure into a reactive constricting motion would be a game changer and huge increase in realism. I’d recommend keeping electronics out of it at first but I understand how it could be used for vocal feedback or other reactions.

I think this would be fairly easy to do. Have two or three flexible bags shaped like donuts, one without fluid and the others with, connected by constricted tubing, and as a person thrusts they push fluid from one bag into the other, and as they withdraw they force the fluid back into the original bag. Oh, now that I've written that it doesn't seem so easy. But the strategy might be to force fluid from one area to another and creating constriction.

[AIMD]

Another idea for manual constriction might be a modified form of the Chinese Finger puzzle. Not sure how to implement it yet so just throwing the idea out there in hopes others can come up with something.

[Technician]

Short responses because I only have a few minutes.....

A quick search on Amazon for "flexible sensor" finds pretty much what you're concept is for this sensor in a variety of shapes and lengths, I never looked until now.

Copper doesn't bother me inside a doll because it would need to be encapsulated in plastic or something anyway so it doesn't oxidize.

Wire jackets aren't a concern because silicone jacketed wire would be an obvious choice for flexibility.

A sensor that acts from sloshing like you described wouldn't be necessary because in code any sensor input can have it's timing accounted for so it would be like (but obviously not exactly as this is generic):

if(sensor_pulse_time >= A_ms)
do this
else if(sensor_pulse_time >= B_ms)
do that
else()
do some other thing

[AIMD]

Short responses because I only have a few minutes.....

A quick search on Amazon for "flexible sensor" finds pretty much what you're concept is for this sensor in a variety of shapes and lengths, I never looked until now.

My ideas are built upon work from others and the flexible sensor idea came from work on flexible graphic wires for fabric. I was looking at the flexible sensors on Amazon (and DIY) but haven't come across anything about embedding graphite in TPE, although there are works about embedding graphite in silicone. The flexible sensors from Amazon and DIY appear to be more of the strip type but I could be missing something.

Copper doesn't bother me inside a doll because it would need to be encapsulated in plastic or something anyway so it doesn't oxidize.

Of course but it appears other information shows TPE and silicone can degrade certain types of plastic coatings. Not sure of the time frame of degradation though.

Wire jackets aren't a concern because silicone jacketed wire would be an obvious choice for flexibility.

I work with TPE and silicone doesn't play nice with it so this is why it's a concern.

A sensor that acts from sloshing like you described wouldn't be necessary because in code any sensor input can have it's timing accounted for so it would be like (but obviously not exactly as this is generic):

if(sensor_pulse_time >= A_ms)
do this
else if(sensor_pulse_time >= B_ms)
do that
else()
do some other thing

Again, I'm not well versed in programming and electronics so this is why I suggested multiple measuring points instead of timing, which I think would allow more discrete measuring points.

[jeep2639]

To be honest, I think there is a simpler way, and that’s to use an accelerometer that would feel the movement. To see how well it works, just get a vibration app on your phone, and just lay your phone on your doll and see how it senses what you do to her. You don’t even have to put it inside the vagina.

[AIMD]

To be honest, I think there is a simpler way, and that’s to use an accelerometer that would feel the movement. To see how well it works, just get a vibration app on your phone, and just lay your phone on your doll and see how it senses what you do to her. You don’t even have to put it inside the vagina.

But wouldn't that mean as soon as you moved the doll (for repositioning, etc.) she would react? The sensor idea is not just for the vagina but for reactive responses in other places like the lips, breasts, hands, and other parts of the body.

[jeep2639]

To be honest, I think there is a simpler way, and that’s to use an accelerometer that would feel the movement. To see how well it works, just get a vibration app on your phone, and just lay your phone on your doll and see how it senses what you do to her. You don’t even have to put it inside the vagina.

But wouldn't that mean as soon as you moved the doll (for repositioning, etc.) she would react? The sensor idea is not just for the vagina but for reactive responses in other places like the lips, breasts, hands, and other parts of the body.

If you put enough sensors, you can get a good picture of what exactly is happening. It’s an engineering discipline called sensor fusion, where you collect lots of data from multiple sensors, combine that data, and get full and accurate information about what is happening. Those sensors are very small and very cheap. The sensors will know if the doll is on its back, on its knees, moving or stationary. Heck, there are solid state magnetic sensors that would even tell you if the doll is pointing north…

[AIMD]

If you put enough sensors, you can get a good picture of what exactly is happening. It’s an engineering discipline called sensor fusion, where you collect lots of data from multiple sensors, combine that data, and get full and accurate information about what is happening. Those sensors are very small and very cheap. The sensors will know if the doll is on its back, on its knees, moving or stationary. Heck, there are solid state magnetic sensors that would even tell you if the doll is pointing north…

Yes of course and I agree. As a comparison human sensors are nerve endings and very localized (but we have many), and we also have an accelerometer/position sensor, the fluid in our ears, so I guess I'm trying to duplicate those but in a manner anyone can recreate from commonly found items. Of course things such as the analytical units would probably have to be bought unless someone has the necessary skills. But for the sensors almost anyone could create a custom shaped sensor out of graphite from pencils, molten TPE/silicone caulking, and aluminum foil. Perhaps someone could also figure out a crude analytical unit with common materials. I tend to 'devolve' my designs and ideas because it is far too easy to 'evolve' them to the point they become so complicated only specialized equipment can be used to create them. I believe all people should have the ability to create, no matter their level.

[jeep2639]

Yes of course and I agree. As a comparison human sensors are nerve endings and very localized (but we have many), and we also have an accelerometer/position sensor, the fluid in our ears, so I guess I'm trying to duplicate those but in a manner anyone can recreate from commonly found items. Of course things such as the analytical units would probably have to be bought unless someone has the necessary skills. But for the sensors almost anyone could create a custom shaped sensor out of graphite from pencils, molten TPE/silicone caulking, and aluminum foil. Perhaps someone could also figure out a crude analytical unit with common materials. I tend to 'devolve' my designs and ideas because it is far too easy to 'evolve' them to the point they become so complicated only specialized equipment can be used to create them. I believe all people should have the ability to create, no matter their level.

Have you thought about suggesting your ideas to some of the doll manufacturers who might listen? I keep sending ideas to XTdoll, and they seem to listen...

[AIMD]

Yes of course and I agree. As a comparison human sensors are nerve endings and very localized (but we have many), and we also have an accelerometer/position sensor, the fluid in our ears, so I guess I'm trying to duplicate those but in a manner anyone can recreate from commonly found items. Of course things such as the analytical units would probably have to be bought unless someone has the necessary skills. But for the sensors almost anyone could create a custom shaped sensor out of graphite from pencils, molten TPE/silicone caulking, and aluminum foil. Perhaps someone could also figure out a crude analytical unit with common materials. I tend to 'devolve' my designs and ideas because it is far too easy to 'evolve' them to the point they become so complicated only specialized equipment can be used to create them. I believe all people should have the ability to create, no matter their level.

Have you thought about suggesting your ideas to some of the doll manufacturers who might listen? I keep sending ideas to XTdoll, and they seem to listen...

My ideas are open source so anyone can use them. If a manufacturer wants to use them then okay but they cannot restrict those ideas in any manner. I believe it is the tinkerers who create and expand the future so these ideas are for them.