Arm stuck in T-Pose, joint locked up?

[a789987a]

Hello everyone!

I purchased an Elsa Babe doll from a TDF-approved vendor (who shall not be named yet) and it arrived on February 20th, a bit over a month ago.

Since March 13th (22 days after arrival), the left arm (right if you're facing the doll) has been stuck out at the side (T-pose position) and I have not been able to lower it. I can raise it and bring it forward and backward, but only by moving the shrugging shoulder joints.

I don't remember specifically how I moved the arm at the time, but:

• It wasn't anything complicated.
• The doll was laying face-up on a mat at the time so it wasn't anything towards the back.
• I moved both arms so I would be shocked if it wasn't symmetrical.

I contacted the vendor with a short, incomplete video and they said that the joints are rotated out of position and that I just need to rotate the arm back into position. It is now over two weeks later, the arm is still stuck, and I have not found any way to lower it.

At that time I posted on the forum, mostly to get past the five-post newbie limit, but also to see if there was anything obvious I was missing. A huge thank-you to Socratus, who linked me to this really helpful post explaining the shoulder joints of the skeleton, and showing how to intentionally put the arm into a state that resembled the issue I was seeing. There is also a Twitter video demonstrating this process. This sounded promising to reposition the arm, but the arm of my doll does not move as shown in the video, and I still believe it's actually locked up.

I haven’t really been able to focus on solving this for the last two weeks, but I finally found some time to write up the situation.

The post above refers to four joints on the shoulder: A (raising from at-the-side to a T-pose), B (raising from at-the-side to the front), C (shrugging shoulder upward) and D (shrugging shoulder forward/backward). To explain what’s happening, I'm going to refer to the joints as such below.

First, I’ll explain what’s happening with the working arm:
When I raise the working arm from at-the-side out to the side (T-pose) using joint A:

• The seam runs along the top of the arm.
• Moving the arm up and down continues to use joint A, and the shoulder doesn't move.
• Moving the arm to the front or back moves the shoulder using joint D. Once in a forward or backward position, joint A is rotated out of position and cannot be raised or lowered. But if I return it to the side, joint A is active again, and I can rotate it back down.

When I raise the working arm to the front using joint B, this rotates joint A 90 degrees so that it’s no longer from at-the-side to T-pose, but rather from at-the-front to T-pose. If I then move the arm to the side (T-Pose) using the rotated joint A:

• The seam twists through the shoulder and runs along the back of the arm.
• Moving the arm up moves the shoulder using joint C. It cannot be moved down.
• Moving the arm forward uses joint A and the shoulder (joint D) does not move. Once the arm is forward, it can be lowered back to the side using joint B.

Note that joint B here is fairly stiff.

At a glance, this second scenario resembles what’s going on with the arm. The Twitter video shows using this process to intentionally rotate joint A so it doesn’t move downward, allowing easier movement of joint C, but preventing immediate motion from the T-pose to at-the-side. Since I did not fully understand the skeleton at the time, my initial video to the vendor showed only this joint C motion.

However, with a better understanding of the skeleton, here’s the full behavior of the stuck arm, as far as I can figure out.

• The seam runs along the top of the arm. (As if it were raised to the side directly. If it was not moved to the side directly, the skeleton itself has rotated underneath the silicone.)
• Moving the arm up moves the shoulder using joint C. It cannot be moved down. (As if it were raised to the front and then moved to the side.)
• Moving the arm to the front or back moves the shoulder using joint D. In a forward or backward position, it cannot be raised or lowered. (As if it were raised to the side directly.)
• After moving the shoulder up using joint C, I can move it forward using joint D. It does not go below "straight out in front".

The position of the seam, in particular, makes me fairly confident that the arm was raised via joint A and it simply locked up.

The attached video shows me replicating all these motions.

This has been a big problem. I bought the doll primarily for cosplay, I can't dress it well due to limited range of motion. I also can't exactly get it back in the box, so it’s hiding under a pile of blankets in my closet and taking up a ton of space.

First things first: Is my description of the joint movement shown in the video accurate? Are there other motions not shown in the video or described in the text that I should try? Is there something I'm still missing here?

[Davey2469]

Hello everyone!

I purchased an Elsa Babe doll from a TDF-approved vendor (who shall not be named yet) and it arrived on February 20th, a bit over a month ago.

Since March 13th (22 days after arrival), the left arm (right if you're facing the doll) has been stuck out at the side (T-pose position) and I have not been able to lower it. I can raise it and bring it forward and backward, but only by moving the shrugging shoulder joints.

I don't remember specifically how I moved the arm at the time, but:

• It wasn't anything complicated.
• The doll was laying face-up on a mat at the time so it wasn't anything towards the back.
• I moved both arms so I would be shocked if it wasn't symmetrical.

I contacted the vendor with a short, incomplete video and they said that the joints are rotated out of position and that I just need to rotate the arm back into position. It is now over two weeks later, the arm is still stuck, and I have not found any way to lower it.

At that time I posted on the forum, mostly to get past the five-post newbie limit, but also to see if there was anything obvious I was missing. A huge thank-you to Socratus, who linked me to this really helpful post explaining the shoulder joints of the skeleton, and showing how to intentionally put the arm into a state that resembled the issue I was seeing. There is also a Twitter video demonstrating this process. This sounded promising to reposition the arm, but the arm of my doll does not move as shown in the video, and I still believe it's actually locked up.

I haven’t really been able to focus on solving this for the last two weeks, but I finally found some time to write up the situation.

The post above refers to four joints on the shoulder: A (raising from at-the-side to a T-pose), B (raising from at-the-side to the front), C (shrugging shoulder upward) and D (shrugging shoulder forward/backward). To explain what’s happening, I'm going to refer to the joints as such below.

First, I’ll explain what’s happening with the working arm:
When I raise the working arm from at-the-side out to the side (T-pose) using joint A:

• The seam runs along the top of the arm.
• Moving the arm up and down continues to use joint A, and the shoulder doesn't move.
• Moving the arm to the front or back moves the shoulder using joint D. Once in a forward or backward position, joint A is rotated out of position and cannot be raised or lowered. But if I return it to the side, joint A is active again, and I can rotate it back down.

When I raise the working arm to the front using joint B, this rotates joint A 90 degrees so that it’s no longer from at-the-side to T-pose, but rather from at-the-front to T-pose. If I then move the arm to the side (T-Pose) using the rotated joint A:

• The seam twists through the shoulder and runs along the back of the arm.
• Moving the arm up moves the shoulder using joint C. It cannot be moved down.
• Moving the arm forward uses joint A and the shoulder (joint D) does not move. Once the arm is forward, it can be lowered back to the side using joint B.

Note that joint B here is fairly stiff.

At a glance, this second scenario resembles what’s going on with the arm. The Twitter video shows using this process to intentionally rotate joint A so it doesn’t move downward, allowing easier movement of joint C, but preventing immediate motion from the T-pose to at-the-side. Since I did not fully understand the skeleton at the time, my initial video to the vendor showed only this joint C motion.

However, with a better understanding of the skeleton, here’s the full behavior of the stuck arm, as far as I can figure out.

• The seam runs along the top of the arm. (As if it were raised to the side directly. If it was not moved to the side directly, the skeleton itself has rotated underneath the silicone.)
• Moving the arm up moves the shoulder using joint C. It cannot be moved down. (As if it were raised to the front and then moved to the side.)
• Moving the arm to the front or back moves the shoulder using joint D. In a forward or backward position, it cannot be raised or lowered. (As if it were raised to the side directly.)
• After moving the shoulder up using joint C, I can move it forward using joint D. It does not go below "straight out in front".

The position of the seam, in particular, makes me fairly confident that the arm was raised via joint A and it simply locked up.

The attached video shows me replicating all these motions.

This has been a big problem. I bought the doll primarily for cosplay, I can't dress it well due to limited range of motion. I also can't exactly get it back in the box, so it’s hiding under a pile of blankets in my closet and taking up a ton of space.

First things first: Is my description of the joint movement shown in the video accurate? Are there other motions not shown in the video or described in the text that I should try? Is there something I'm still missing here?

You might read thru this thread - viewtopic.php?t=178829 as it seems the same problem. There is a lot of information in that thread about skeletons and movement.

[a789987a]

You might read thru this thread - viewtopic.php?t=178829 as it seems the same problem. There is a lot of information in that thread about skeletons and movement.

That was my post from two weeks ago. I have still not been able to solve the problem.