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Running a few experiments.

Ding! POP! Crash! Thud! oops...let's get her all fixed up!
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justintime
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by justintime »

I would guess that doll makers have some way of doing this.
So why in the hell don't have a repair video?
I can bet you one thing. The fist time TPE has damage on shipping or a problem from the factory.
They are going to tell YOU how to fix it.( in a PM, so no one can see you have a problem)
They are not going to say send it back and we will send another that is for sure.
They will 100% turn their backs on you and hope the thread gets buried in TDF. Which it will.

As for our own damages that we do, it would still benefit us to know how to repair TPE.
My hat goes off to people like TYR For taking this on and taking the time to help each one of us.
This should be on the lips of every thread. It's just a matter of time before this happens to all TPE owners.

So what we all should be asking on each doll makers thread. Is,,,, where is the TPE repair videos?
You know dame well they know how to do it.

:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
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Keyman
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Keyman »

Well done Tyr, last effort shows promise. What was the technique? did you hold the blade between the sides of the split, on top of it etc?

Couldn't agree more with Justintime. I didn't know what TPE was before this and when mine failed in one month the makers expect you to become instantly knowledgeable repairman with NO support!!

Shouldn't a repair kit and instructional materials at the very least be provided in lieu of Zero warranty against defects???

Maybe not eh? After all what do customers expect for a $2500 product, I guess we are asking too much from them.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Begog »

Excellent work and thanks for sharing.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the encouragement. I will try to Keep the experiments going although they are a means to an end, making my girl better.
Keyman wrote:What was the technique? did you hold the blade between the sides of the split, on top of it etc?
The method is to use the hot knife to heat both mating surfaces to melting point and slowly draw the knife through the material towards the close. The TPE has to be held together whilst the material bonds. The operation would need some planning if the areas to be joined were already under some stress. this was quite a simple by comparison. The blade has to be hot enough that the Blade 'flows' through the TPE. If it is not hot enough, the blade pulls on the TPE. I then ran the blade over the joint on it's side to smooth the surface. I have another tool in mind for that purpose, more to follow. I will be trying to break the joint tomorrow. I can see some voids in the joint so it is not as good as I had first thought, but we will see.
This is the setup I have, although I haven't used the dimmer plug as the blade takes longer to heat up than a standard solder bit. So far it seems to be fine. the soldering iron is very old and I have no idea what the rating is. a newer more modern one may require some means of regulation. I don't know. The fork is the same as the donor for the hot knife. The other part is a spoon handle that I was going to use as a smoother, but I have something else coming which may be better.
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I have some Tan colour TPE coming. then my work starts in earnest.

With regard to the manufacturer's responsibilities, I'm not going to say much other than this, The Properties or liabilities of the material used in the manufacture of these dolls must be understood otherwise they would not exist. That TPE 'glue' and stain remover exists also demonstrates awareness of certain 'issues'. Therefore, considering that the price, £1900 approx. is not insignificant, it would be nice if a repair kit some spare TPE and some instruction was included at the very least. Maybe even some 'expert' availability so we don't have to ship a doll halfway around the world. I will not knock the manufacturers as I am actually grateful that they actually make the dolls in the first place otherwise I would not have one, but there is always room for improvement. I would say fix the basics before adding more bodies, heads etc.
Some people may not be able or willing to undertake these repairs. I, myself have not had many successes so far but I learn.

Tyr.
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by justintime »

Tyr , well said and very good statement.
In what other fields is TPE used, beside sex dolls?
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

These guys http://www.starthermoplastics.com/tpes-in-action/ seem to have quite a product range, no dolls tho' :-)
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Here is a vid of the hot knife repair. Approximately 24 hours after.
The joint fails from the inside first. I think that there is the problem with any TPE 'weld' repair. the blade is coolest by virtue of being further away from the heat source.
It may be beneficial to 'tack weld' the joint first to stabilise the parts and then run the knife through the whole lot after. All of the real world problems of metal welding are true to TPE too. In fact its worse, as metal is a stable medium, TPE wants to flow, wriggle and squidge out of the way. You cannot see into the repair to tell how well the repair has taken. the same repair could be undertaken umpteen times with a different weakness in all. you just don't know. Although if you really mucked it up I should think it will be obvious.
I can see preparation is vital to this type of repair and I would think that it will require the removal of any material that looks loose, detached or damaged. To leave it in will only build in weak points that can fail later.
The question is how much of a repair is acceptable? My opinion of this test is that I have taken the test piece above and beyond the call of duty to break the bond. I would have to ask, would you do that to your doll and how, or why? What I am striving for is to be able to patch or fill defects in the TPE bodies that can survive 'normal' day to day use.
I will have another go at this and see if I can do a better job. more practise.
Another item to note, Like soldering, keep the blade clean, I had polished this one to start with but it looks pretty grubby now, if it's not clean then the dirt will get into the repair.
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“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Siliconeman »

I have been thinking of using hot air soldering gun for TPE welding. Advantage is that you will be able to control the temperature more precisely.
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by justintime »

That still looks great, you were really pulling and twisting that. I think your on the right track. Your efforts are appreciated.
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Hi Guys,

Just a quickie today,
I wanted to show you the Snuff spoon that I bought to use as a smoother.
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The last photo shows the collet that I made out of a soldering bit to hold the tools.

I also thought that I would try xylene as TPE glue. as I had found a convenient split in my test piece.
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I met with the same results as I would have with the 'glue', not very successful, so I passed the smoother through the split and bingo! fixed. This was not a precision fix, just a quick pass and squeezed the joint.
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I have also done a bit of work in the inside of the previous repair, which is good as Ami definitely needs some internal work, and have found with the test sample at least, that it is not quite as hard as it first seems. I will test the joint tomorrow after it has set.
This tool and the hotknife may well be the solution I am looking for, combined with the use of some TPE and xylene mix to bulk her up in some areas.
I have some tan TPE on it's way. I now need to plan the operation and work out how best to position her, the ventilation, the hot knife, et all without getting tangled up and damaging her through some careless mistake.

In the meantime, I will continue my testing. I need to become proficient using the tpe 'glue' as it is best suited for those little splits, if only I could get it right.
Siliconeman wrote:I have been thinking of using hot air soldering gun for TPE welding. Advantage is that you will be able to control the temperature more precisely.
Hi Siliconeman,
I'm afraid I would be totally out of my depth with that device. I suppose like with everything here, it needs to be tried and tested. Do you intend to try this out? It would be interesting to see what happens.

Tyr
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by justintime »

Good info Tyr

It's great to read your posts each day. Really looks like you have something that will work.

Thanks for sharing
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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Change of plans,

On close examination of the work I did yesterday, I saw that the repair was actually unsatisfactory. The TPE had webbed over in places and not others. I had turns the sample inside out to examine the fix, and although it looks ok, it is under stress and the bond is not complete. (Sorry I forgot to photograph this.) The edges of the repair should have been a lot closer together.
If I squeezed the repair it was easy to see what it should have been. I did manage to hot knife the joint whilst it was inside out with varied success. Overall I would call yesterdays attempt a failure. These photos show how it looks the right way round.
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Those voids should not be there.
So, last night I made up a fresh batch of the TPE/xylene with a 60/40 mix approx. Then this morning after about 14 hours, used this mix to try to fill the voids inside. I think the mix has to be biased virtually 2:1 in favour of TPE, so added some small chunks. If there is too much xylene it will eat away the parent material.
So here's what we have now, I'm looking to see if 1. The mix takes to the sample. 2. The sample does not get damaged by the mix. 3. Eventually test the quality of the bond. I'm going to leave it for a couple of days to let it set. (I hope that this works as this is almost identical to Ami's problems).
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I will check the sample at intervals to see if there are any apparent reactions.
That's all for now,

Tyr
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Roughly 24 hours later:
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The vid is taken with the test sample as is, It has been standing for 23 hours. The joint fails in the vid towards the back end of the repair. but overall I am pleased with the result. there seems to be uniform adhesion to the sample, and for one coat seems to hold up well. I have some mix left over and will apply more to the failure and overall to see if there is any improvement. It may be that this type of repair can be applied in layers. We shall see.


Tyr
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by Tyr »

Hi Guys,

After the last attempt at making the repair good, I decided to leave the mix for 2 days to 'cure'. Here is the result, stone cold, fresh for video.
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As you can see, the area where the large holes were (have a look at my previous post) are now gone, I used the 2/1 TPE/xylene mix which I am going to refer to as 'cold cure' from now on, liberally and made sure that it was worked into the joint. The mend does not look quite so good at the end where you can see a large void has developed. I will probably have a go at filling this too as it's more practise.
The Test sample was beginning to look very second hand so gave it a quick wash with washing up liquid and warm water. After that went around the end pulling off little bits of the cold cured mix here and there. Here's what it looks like now.
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Pretty clean.
There are a few things to take on board here: It would seem that the cold cure mix did not make a complete bond with the TPE, as I was able to peel off very thin layers. Also the TPE would appear unaffected by the contact with the mix. It maybe that there is not enough xylene to affect a permanent bond. Maybe applying some neat xylene before application of the cold cure mix would help. The areas where the repairs were made seem to be much stronger provided the mix is applied liberally. The mix needs to be viscous (so that it blobs on the end of a toothpick and does not run off) in order that the xylene vapours do not melt/ corrode the parent TPE at speed. I feel that a runny mix would be inclined to do this.
Work the mix into the repair area, fill all air pockets and voids as this will probably help the mix to key in. Make sure you have enough mix. Although I think that this can be added in stages. It won't be wasted as it can be re used.
You can't really apply the mix to an area that requires pressure to hold it closed unless you can actually apply the pressure for a couple of days. All of the repairs here are under no load whilst curing. If that type of repair is required then I see the hot knife as the way to go. At least as a method of pinning the repair together and then maybe use the mix after? A hot repair would still require a curing time before additional work is carried out. It would seem that the cold cure mix is inherently safer to your doll's health than going at her with a soldering iron and the like. Not sure if I have made myself clear with my musings, but I hope so. IT is vitally important to plan the type of repair necessary, the positioning of your doll, to maximise the benefits of the repair. The viscous mix still runs, so beware!
I also tried some of the mix on cling film and fortunately it has no effect. So to maximise the protection for your doll wrap her in cling film. But test a small bit first just to make sure. It might be possible to use it as a kind of bandage. whilst the mix cures.
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Tyr.
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Running a few experiments.

Post by DarkOne »

I would suggest you try more with the iron, but what I did was use a regular soldering iron tip, but the end of it was sanded down to a round nub, and the tip was bent into a J like shape for being able to smooth TPE with the outside curve.

Copper cored (or even just plated) soldering iron tips will conduct heat better then many other materials.

Another suggestion would be aluminum rod. Steel is a very poor conductor of heat and that steel blade is not nearly thick enough to conduct heat or hold enough heat.
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