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auto78900 wrote:hy, after visiting a few times here I notice that most dolls do not look real, actually none of them. So I was wondering if this is done on purpose so that people dont get scared of these dolls ? Anyone with normal vision can see that most wax figures and silicone babies look much more real than these dolls , just to give you an example here is a youtube link to a silicone baby - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnAFcUev0Y
For an idea why dont they use Laser copying technology, if making these dolls look more real is so difficult ? In some factories they can use 3D Laser copying for almost anything.
I think a very large part of this is the surface of the silicone vs. real skin.
Skin: Variations in color, hue and and tone. imperfections like moles, freckles and blemishes, baby fine hair.
Silicone: Even consistent tone throughout, no tonal variations, blemishes, moles or baby fine hairs.
Anyway, that's what always gives it away for me. But then again, i'm a photographer so I would notice this. Sinthetics (please don't ban me for saying this) has taken realistic appearance a major step forward in trying to include these skin-like qualities in their dolls, especially color and tonal variations. I don't know if they have included imperfections, and no one to my knowledge has yet found a way to get hair to grow on silicone.
LovesBlackWomen wrote:I understand where this new, well, actually not so new guy is coming from.
He's asking about making more realistic dolls, and what are the barriers from preventing that.
I see where he's coming from and this is the prefect place to ask those questions.
He doesn't have any ideas, that's why he came here.
Here's an example of a realistic doll:
It's the hair. Most white people are uncomfortable with wigs- we associate them with illness, old folks and mannequins. A realistic doll (and they are very realistic) with a bad wig- hair too thick or too low of hairline -will look odd.
Szalinski sez ... Skin: Variations in color, hue and and tone. imperfections like moles, freckles and blemishes, baby fine hair.
Yep. Seeing into two shops, the manufacturer will take about a day or two detailing a face, while the portrait guy took two weeks just working on the pores going into the mold, let alone matching color variation. Each little thing adds time and cost. I'll love it when we finally get there and lots of people are working on it.
A quote comes to mind from the then head of the Soviet space program on their Buran space shuttle: "We paying for the space plane of the future with the rubles of today!"
"You are trying to buy the dolls of tomorrow with todays dollars!"
"But what are dollars for but to buy dolls !?! Just shutup already and take my money (while its worth something ...)!"
Artificial Intelligence is the study of how to make real computers act like the ones in the movies -Anon
The questions you ask determine the discoveries you will make - db
I am a new user but long time viewer as well. I have already started and found a good solution to this problem as well as some more detailed differences and WHY the guy asked this question to begin with. I too asked it when I started down this siliconey slope.
Premium sex dolls look like..well DOLLS! Big Barbie type dolls with more anatomically correct features and functions,but big barbies non the less. I too asked why?? I like the fine facial details and body details of the human body and that is what takes me over the top every time..DETAILS. I like big women,older women,more REAL human woman as super models with plastic skin are not common I do not care what anybody says! So ok, I started looking in "other" areas outside sexdolls, to find what I wanted and then would "modify or customize to taste" afterwards. I found it! Premium silicone MASK and SFX silicone prop makers!
Here is what I seek in my human like doll head and face: Facial veins,both slight grey veins and the more prominent bulging kind found on Angelina Jolie and Julia Roberts on the forehead,neck and temples. The most common places you see veins both subtle and prominent,are: the ends of the mouth down to jaw line,down the cheeks from temple or lower eye area,jaw and chin sag areas down to neck, forehead and of course,temples.
Both young and sultry to BBW and Milf,Gilf and even some men(if that is your thing),have these veins in real life,so why not on a doll or doll head at least?? Skin wrinkles,folds,sag,follicles,moles,color variations,and skin pores. The lips have creases and folds and color subtleties too as well as some lips are sharper on the edges than others,and many women,even the model type, have at least very slight upper lip baby hair! Eyes,ears,and nose hairs and details including open nostrils and open ear canals at least for the hair and for looks.
The shape of features of the face: defined or sunken temples,the bump on the middle top of all human foreheads,the double chin that most all humans have even models that can range from very slight and almost flat under chin to Obese chin sag. Jowls both slight and plump. Sunken cheeks to chubby cheeks. Eyebrow ridges and eyelids with wrinkles,undulations,etc.
Skin textures ranging from slightly shiny(from sweat and face oils),to the more normal matte skin texture found in most humans. The baby fine hair follicles found in most human skin is what adds and helps the MATTE Soft skin feeling,even in silicone!
All these details are present by default or by special request, with most silicone mask makers and prop fx artists. the prices range from free to $800 for most of these details.
Hair follicles,eyebrows,upper lip and chin hair is common on most humans and is important to add that realism we take for granted until we behold a silicone love doll and then notice something is "off". So far the mask makers PUNCH IN the facial hairs and do not GLUE it. Head hair has a 3 choice configuration and price depends on those choices. Choice 1 is wig. This is the most economical and common even in sex dolls,both premium and cheap. Choice 2 is hand punched full or partial head of hair! This one is the best and most expensive but usually will not exceed $800USD. And last is choice 3 which is hairline hand punched,lace wig head combo.
Features of the head or face that most doll makers cut corners on for a really expensive doll or head: realistic hard but smoothed teeth and silicone gums,nasal air passage from the nose to the back of the mouth above and behind the SOFT PALETTE. Skull with defined temples,dimples,bumps,etc like real skulls. Jaw that moves like a real jaw both hinged and moveable side to side(dislocatable but within reason). And ability to cheek(popping the cheek).That last one is a matter of the right thickening or thinning of the silicone in the accessible cheek area of the face/mouth especially when the mouth is open.
The neck/chin area. here is an area that was once more realistic in older designs but has since all but dissapeared and been replaced with a clearly visible seem or part transition. This is due to the heads being removable now to be interchangable. Fine,that is good for those who want to collect heads for the same body or vice versa. But for those wanting a real human look,the seemless neck and jaw/chin area is very important. Chin sagging and doubling where the baby fat shows under the chin when the mouth opens or is visible in normal state and becomes more obvious only with mouth opening. With older milf,gilf and BBW women oral heads and dolls,those features are an obvious must. Skin sag and jowls for BBW and milf gilf heads and dolls around the neck,cheeks and jaw areas.
A silicone mask(your custom face and skin)normally comes with a chest or partial chest and back with shoulder tops which allows the neck to be seemless and natural,especially when adding neck and chest veins,bulge veins,and neck and shoulder bones details. And normally veins are free as part of the small details that can be painted while your mask is being made.
PVC human skulls are cheep and available everywhere online and most if not all come with detailed temples and teeth(though the teeth are normally very fake looking but can be remedied).
The oral insert beyond the teeth. This part is where you come into most contact aside from the inside of the cheeks and lips. A good realistic looking and feeling tongue makes all the world of difference! The front of the mouth is normally harder at the roof and gums but as you pass the 4" mark the soft palette comes into play along with the "throat area. The throat is supposed to go.well downward and can be smooth like a real throat or be ribbed.
The suction of the oral feature should be such that you do not suffer from too much vacuum and no release and escape. It can cause the same or similar problem that "blowing into the urethra" can cause. Such vacuum can be regulated the same way a real woman does it,with the nose air passage and in "breathing". So making the head with a air passage from the nose to the upper back of the mouth behind the soft palette,but NOT at the bottom of the throat! When deepthroating, the air passage is blocked and the vacuum is created as in the real thing but as you back off and are in normal act within the mouth, air will pump through the nose passage and it would be almost as if the head/doll is breathing will you work it!. It will prevent you from being "stopped" at orgasm from the vacuum effect also.
The newest forms of silicone work and paintwork as well as hair punching is made very durable and face masks are worn and used just as sex dolls only masks are worn. You can remove the whole mask at chest level or such thing hiding the seems or have the mask come forward by having a seem in the back of the head(wig and partial wig only) to expose the skull and innards.
I am doing all this NOW. The cost overall is far less than was quoted. It WAS $25k to 100K,but that was in 1999. It is around $1000 to $3500 for a full on head so much cheaper. I do not have the skills to take on all this new trade work so I rather pay a mask maker to make the mask with all the details and then I build the rest since the rest is unseen and mostly innards. POWER MESH around the eyes,nose,ears,and most importantly,the mouth!! That is key and seems no doll maker is using it..Why?
Not all of us want a shinny skin faced doll looking doll. Some of us want a Gilf, a milf, a bbw a homely woman a real looking woman or man doll.
Men masks look more realistic than female masks! Consider this and use your imagination as Woman was made from MAN so only a few very small subtle details difference from a man to a woman as far as face details are concerned. You will be surprised and it will be well worth it. Once you go realistic,you will not go back to fake looking!
Hello and welcome to the forum, pianokeyjoe2009.
Agreed; any nuance that makes a face less of an uncanny valley dweller is most welcome.
All of the color imperfections and asymmetry are what makes faces beautifully unique.
I'm happy to report that many are on the same page as you, and that future faces will continue to get more true to life.
to me its in the small details. being a sculptor myself, you wouldnt believe how a little line, mark or such in the clay will come out in the silicone. every little detail matters. its who has an eye for these small things, that makes the grade.
LovesBlackWomen wrote:I understand where this new, well, actually not so new guy is coming from.
He's asking about making more realistic dolls, and what are the barriers from preventing that.
I see where he's coming from and this is the prefect place to ask those questions.
He doesn't have any ideas, that's why he came here.
Here's an example of a realistic doll:
IMG_2859.jpg
If I may ask, what doll is that?
“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
~ George Washington
Okay, here's my take on this. No matter how much like a real (albeit idealized) person a doll looks in a photograph, when you see one in person you'll be able to tell it's inanimate almost immediately. So if you can't suspend disbelief when interacting with "quasi"-realistic doll, it's doubtful that any additional realism is gonna help you much.
I think the key to perceiving a doll as person is the capacity for her face to imply a variety of expressions despite the inability to actually change. I call it the "C-3PO principle". I don't recall if it was Tony Daniels himself, but someone commented how C-3PO's expression, while in theory completely neutral, was at the same time able to convey pretty much any emotion. So it would follow that the more realistic a sculpted face is, the less able it is to produce such a variety, forcing the sculptor to choose between perpetually sultry, perpetually eager, perpetually contentedly relaxed...or else go with an expression so neutral that it ultimately looks catatonic and strays right into the dreaded Uncanny Valley.
When I ordered my Ruby13, I chose Face 7 for the slightly open and thus kissable mouth...only to find that her expressions were pretty much limited to either sultry or shocked. Perhaps if I'd gone with the more seemingly-neutral Face 2, I might've connected with her on an emotional level rather than finding the shortcomings of silicone versus plush not outweighing the advantages. Meanwhile, I've found that my Teddy Babes can appear happy, sad, inquisitive, annoyed, contemplative...and it's that quality that enables me to see them as artificial people rather than merely sexually-capable art objects, which no amount of physical realism can replace.
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You never truly feel that another person loves you. You can only react to the way they behave towards you. And when I look in Caley's eyes and see that same bittersweet longing I feel for her, whatever part of my brain knows it's not real doesn't seem to care...
beardygoat wrote:newbie, is a troublemaker and you are taking his bait,lol
No matter, any excuse I can have to show pics of Kayla is a good excuse
They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and i got to say ,the realism is pretty damn close now, especially the Realdoll,4woods, Anatomical doll,Personal island beauty models. And Ds Dolls of course,anybody, please sell me one cheap
As for details , who wants a doll with bags under their eyes,a double chin, wrinkles,warts,crooked teeth,burn marks, large moles,varicose viens or in my case,surgical scars?I dont even want them on me.
Isnt the fantasy supposed to be our idealised concept of perfection in a doll, male/female? If i wanted imperfections aplenty with all the emotional bs that goes with it, id be married with children now, a long time ago.
Good points notmyname.
I can change my dolls expression when we are "together" easily by use of flickering candlelight or random pulsing lights dimmed down. Having your doll be able to move when your doing it so the lighting hits her face and cast varying shadows make a huge impact of changing her expression.
James1969
I don't want a doll either that show lots of the "ugly" flaws of life, but even a 18 yo girl has fine lines and wrinkles at the corners of the eyes and mouth. A few acne scars are real and all these subtle things will make them not look so plastic. I can't wait until I can get some silicone samples and try my hand at rooting hair.
Going downtown. Gonna see my gal. Gonna sing her a song. I'm gonna show her my ding dong! C&C
Thankyou Mod for the kind comments to my long detailed descript. I would say the attitude of one poster says it all as to why all dolls so far do not look real.It is the most common response which I already expected but Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not all of us can have a real woman for one reason or another so having a close facsimile at least for our most primal urges,is not unreasonable. I am a widower with child and living in the mountains..Choices are very limited as in NONE. This technology helps us get back(in my case) or enjoy for the first time in other's cases,the joys of copious fun without all the complications,bad emotions,sickness,no's, and such. Many men love BBW and MILF,GILF and even hairy women..But no dolls exist for them/US/ME. I have taken the initiative to be the first to try and build one or 2 or 10,as long as the funds keep coming in lol! Anyway,great responses! I am glad I am not alone in my desire and thinking..That is at least one good step in the right direction!
LovesBlackWomen wrote:I understand where this new, well, actually not so new guy is coming from.
He's asking about making more realistic dolls, and what are the barriers from preventing that.
I see where he's coming from and this is the prefect place to ask those questions.
He doesn't have any ideas, that's why he came here.
Here's an example of a realistic doll:
IMG_2859.jpg
DANG?? Is that a DOLL? Or a Person? You messing with me. Man now I need to get a Fine black chick. hmmmm..My Bucket list is to have a girl of every race, nationality, skin color... I better start saving up so I can have that bucket list permently at home. Or I better start going to whore clubs, which is really the only why I can afford that. If that is a DOLL, SHE is BEUTIFUL... Sexiest Black Chick I've seen.. U r a lucky man... If you get bored of her, I can take her off your hands...
Is she one of your mannequins? She is not only very realistic looking but gorgeous as well! 
Perhaps if I'd gone with the more seemingly-neutral Face 2, I might've connected with her on an emotional level rather than finding the shortcomings of silicone versus plush not outweighing the advantages. Meanwhile, I've found that my Teddy Babes can appear happy, sad, inquisitive, annoyed, contemplative...and it's that quality that enables me to see them as artificial people rather than merely sexually-capable art objects, which no amount of physical realism can replace. 
