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Read this if you want to sell your invention

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TDF_Management
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Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by TDF_Management »

This is the Inventors Corner. A section to discuss ideas, inventions, your projects.

But what if you created something you would like to sell? Are you allowed to sell your stuff on TDF?

Yes and No :?

Only listed manufacturers and vendors are allowed to promote their business on TDF. So you can't promote your stuff and accept orders. If you want to make a business out of your invention, please contact TDF Management and we discuss the possibilities.

But if it is just a single item, a prototype or such, then it's okay to sell it on TDF. Please use the For Sale section and be sure to comply to the For Sale rules.

Please don't use the Inventors Corner to promote sales, asking to PM you to buy from you or such. This would be regarded spam -a serious violation of the Rules of Conduct- which may result in a forum ban.

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eronova
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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by eronova »

Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.

BuilderOfCastles
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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by BuilderOfCastles »

eronova wrote:Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.
I must stab this trope in the heart.

Everyone has been taught from early childhood, "If you have a great idea, you patent it and then make lots of money."
This never works. As in, it has lower odds than buying lottery tickets.

A patent is a gun, that costs $5,000
But the bullets cost $1,000,000 each


A patent does not protect the small inventor.
It only provides you with the permission to sue.

Further, if you sue to stop someone from producing and selling your invention, be prepared to:
  • lose your patent - the defendent can "prove" that you shouldn't have been issued a patent, and so it is now gone.
  • be required to pay the defendent's legal fees
  • a little person like you will probably not get a cease & desist order
  • so you will have to wait until the end of the trial to get them to stop manufacturing your invention (which they can drag on for years)
  • the most likely thing that will happen is you win the case, after tons of money (spent on lawyers), the defendant files bankruptcy (you get nothing) and they open up business under a new name, and start copying your product again.
  • which requires you to start all over again with a new lawsuit. (repeat)
The only thing a patent is good for is to keep other people from stopping you from making your product. If you have the patent, they can't sue you for patent infringement. However, all you really need is something with a time-stamp that says you had the idea back at this date. And that, is a good reason to use a forum.

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AI_Pimp
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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by AI_Pimp »

Huh, this is a very interesting thread. I hope it picks up more steam so as to produce more back-and-forth on this matter. Thanks to all who posted, it's all very informative.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by GraFXman »

  • BuilderOfCastles wrote:
    eronova wrote:Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.

    Everyone has been taught from early childhood, "If you have a great idea, you patent it and then make lots of money."
    This never works. As in, it has lower odds than buying lottery tickets....

    Hi BuilderOfCastles;
    Correct you are Sir!
    This happened to catch my eye since tomorrow I'm going to be publishing the details of something I just invented ..
    Note that I'm going to be including the following disclosure in that post:
    * Design/Product Patents & Copyrights have been duly filed.

    Yes indeed my friend, the whole patenting/copyright process through my Attorney is astronomically expensive and probably not recommendable for the "small" inventor - regardless of what those scammers on the TV ads say..
    In my case, I'm not an inventor at all and my design wasn't really intended for "commercial production" but I went thru the process anyway - just because.. and to protect myself more than anything if/when I do decide to make more;
    To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised at all if "you know who" on that side of the World copied/plagiarized my design and produced cheap knock-offs like they do everything else just to make a buck..
    That was about the only aspect of your post I thought was missing - there is absolutely no recourse whatsoever trying to sue (or otherwise) individuals/companies in other countries ..

    Be that as it may..
    I believe the notes you posted on this are exceptional and quite informative/helpful to anyone who might be contemplating going that route..
    Thank you for sharing it!

    Rick~
...................................................................

GreatPair
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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by GreatPair »

Very informative and greatly appreciated.
I have many ideas in my head about different things.
Always thought(from tv ect) that patents were your next step
after making your prototype for proof.
Knowing how much they cost, I haven't taken the steps
towards making anything(plus the abusive wife calls everything
I do/want a waste) so I give up.
I need to get away from her and dream big. Sorry for the rant.
Great thread subscribing and hoping to learn more.
Thank you very much.

watchmaker
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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by watchmaker »

First step would-be investors, not a patent. Manufacturing businesses tend to require a lot of upfront capital investment. You don't need a patent to sell your business idea (invention) to investors. You don't even necessarily need a prototype, though you certainly will if you have no background or credentials in the subject matter.

I'm a research engineer and I am an inventor on several patents, all of which are owned by my various employers (so I didn't spend a dime). I have also written the majority of copy for several patents (patent attorneys will handle the claims section and provide guidance but inventors write most of the patent themselves - they are after all the experts).

If you post material on this forum, the patent examiner might not find it during a prior art search but a competitor might dig it up if they want to challenge your patent down the road. Best not to post anything online.

You can file a "provisional patent" for very little money (I think $150) entirely on your own without hiring an attorney. This is a kind of 'placeholder' that reserves your right to file a real patent application for a year. That way you can talk about your invention, drum up a little press, aggressively pursue investors, look for startup partners etc.
https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-reso ... -need-know

Keep in mind that the only way you are going to make money off an invention is by starting a business. No one is going to pay for just an idea/prototype, even if you have a patent.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Wight »

We have this Foundation for Finnish Inventions that has helped 150 000 customers, and is funded by the Trade Ministry. I believe many European countries have similar system.
Ginevra's thread!
viewtopic.php?t=94375

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by doll-o-grapher »

BuilderOfCastles wrote:
eronova wrote:Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.
I must stab this trope in the heart.
You missed one of the arteries,....

China based businesses can effectively ignore the international patents, as China is not a signatory to the patents conventions and laws.

They also have a different way of thinking about intellectual property, and see some one else's good idea as a starting point for them to have a better idea.

Frankly, if any of us does have a good idea, you're better off finding a manufacturer whose product you like, and doing a licensing deal with them.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Tyr »

I was named as the inventor on a patent granted to a company I worked for about 25 years ago. The reason? To stop our competitors from building something we had no intention of building ourselves. I kid you not.


Tyr
“We’ve always been vulnerable. Every day you go out the house, you’re vulnerable. You’re inches from diving under a bus or somebody hitting you over the head for your money. Nothing is safe. Everybody seems to be obsessed with safety. Well, nothing is safe, okay? Nothing! Make the most of it while you’re safe now. You won’t be tomorrow, maybe.”
The Late, Great, Ian Fraser Kilminster.

My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Aloe_of_Discontent »

I have seventeen patents to my name.

Patents are useful in specific situations, but trademarks and copyrights are far far more useful for commercialized products.

My first patent was filed out of revenge -- I came up with an idea at a factory for performing a task. It would have knocked the entire industry on it's ass, it was that simple. My employer realized that, demanded all of my notes on the subject (All I had at that point was a "Hey look at that!" demonstration) and a brief talk with engineering. Employer then fired me without cause, sent someone to ransack my house (they admitted so later in court) looking for "documents" and they made it extra fun for me to find another job.

Uncle Norm loaned me the money and his lawyer (paid the fees) and I wrote up a quick and dirty patent, filed it and for well over a decade I prevented that sector of industry from doing any work or commercialization of that idea for that application using that method. You don't often get to make a billion dollar company in a trillion dollar industry blink, I got very lucky.

The rest are misc patents related to inventions that have little commercial value by themselves but if incorporated into a design or system could potentially be part of a technology chain that makes someone very rich. I filed these so I can get my piece of the pie (and I have) when someone needs a drawn reciprocating dingle-arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration when a forecent skor-motion is required. (Prize to the person who gets the joke...)
---
"The turbo-encabulator has now reached a high level of development, and it’s being successfully used in the operation of nofer trunnions. Moreover, whenever a forescent skor motion is required, it may also be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal repleneration.”

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Ashajin »

BuilderOfCastles wrote:
eronova wrote:Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.
I must stab this trope in the heart.

Everyone has been taught from early childhood, "If you have a great idea, you patent it and then make lots of money."
This never works. As in, it has lower odds than buying lottery tickets.

A patent is a gun, that costs $5,000
But the bullets cost $1,000,000 each


A patent does not protect the small inventor.
It only provides you with the permission to sue.

Further, if you sue to stop someone from producing and selling your invention, be prepared to:
  • lose your patent - the defendent can "prove" that you shouldn't have been issued a patent, and so it is now gone.
  • be required to pay the defendent's legal fees
  • a little person like you will probably not get a cease & desist order
  • so you will have to wait until the end of the trial to get them to stop manufacturing your invention (which they can drag on for years)
  • the most likely thing that will happen is you win the case, after tons of money (spent on lawyers), the defendant files bankruptcy (you get nothing) and they open up business under a new name, and start copying your product again.
  • which requires you to start all over again with a new lawsuit. (repeat)
The only thing a patent is good for is to keep other people from stopping you from making your product. If you have the patent, they can't sue you for patent infringement. However, all you really need is something with a time-stamp that says you had the idea back at this date. And that, is a good reason to use a forum.
Thank you! Yes, exactly so.
Ashajin
--
Sayara, Sino S33 & 162cm ("Lin Yanyan")

Not every Sino experience is a good one

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Fantastic Plastic »

BuilderOfCastles wrote:
eronova wrote:Please be aware that any disclosure on a public forum prior to submitting a patent application will affect your ability to obtain a patent.
I must stab this trope in the heart.

Everyone has been taught from early childhood, "If you have a great idea, you patent it and then make lots of money."
This never works. As in, it has lower odds than buying lottery tickets.

A patent is a gun, that costs $5,000
But the bullets cost $1,000,000 each


A patent does not protect the small inventor.
It only provides you with the permission to sue.

Further, if you sue to stop someone from producing and selling your invention, be prepared to:
  • lose your patent - the defendent can "prove" that you shouldn't have been issued a patent, and so it is now gone.
  • be required to pay the defendent's legal fees
  • a little person like you will probably not get a cease & desist order
  • so you will have to wait until the end of the trial to get them to stop manufacturing your invention (which they can drag on for years)
  • the most likely thing that will happen is you win the case, after tons of money (spent on lawyers), the defendant files bankruptcy (you get nothing) and they open up business under a new name, and start copying your product again.
  • which requires you to start all over again with a new lawsuit. (repeat)
The only thing a patent is good for is to keep other people from stopping you from making your product. If you have the patent, they can't sue you for patent infringement. However, all you really need is something with a time-stamp that says you had the idea back at this date. And that, is a good reason to use a forum.
Another good example of this is the product called WD-40, sure, the name is copyrighted, and the special cans are patented, but the product itself isn’t.
It started as a parts wash for the space program, to keep aluminum from corroding in the salty air at Cape Canaveral. (WD designates water displacement, and apparently was the 40th iteration)
Anyway, when you patent something, it’s usually only allowed for 17 years, on its 18th birthday anyone can make it now because they know what it is by reading the patent file.
WD-40 hasn’t ever been patented, so you’ll never know exactly what is in it.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Seth UK »

BuilderOfCastles wrote: all you really need is something with a time-stamp that says you had the idea back at this date. And that, is a good reason to use a forum.
This should be sufficient to protect your invention from someone copying the design of it. Here in the UK, this would be classed as an ' unregistered Design Right' which protects against someone copying the shape and configuration of the design and how it's parts fit together, providing that you can prove it is you design or intellectual property and the date you posted it on the forum is earlier than anything that could be deemed as a copy.

As an additional step a design or intellectual property (IP) can be registered for protection with a countries Intellectual Property Office or its equivalent. There is no international office for registering designs or IP's with so this would require registration with each countries Intellectual Property Office to provide protection within that country or region. Here in the UK it is inexpensive to register a design and once approved by the intellectual property office you can display the registration number on your design and it is protected for 5 years which can be renewed every 5 years up to a maximum of 25 years. Registering a design makes taking legal action against infringement or copying a bit more straight forward.

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Re: Read this if you want to sell your invention

Post by Dyson Soong »

I am no legal scholar. Please everyone keep talking.

Nothing wrong with me saying I want to make toys and maybe dolls one day, right?

If you don't want your ideas stolen, maybe don't post the details online. I'm no lawyer, but this seems like common sense.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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