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open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

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LDF
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

oshr wrote:Thanks for the replies.

So some further points about where i see this going:

I too had at first thought soft robotics was the answer but unfortunately it's just not. Pneumatics is out of the question since air compressors are bulky and extremely noisy. It is also very hard to servo control pneumatic air-muscels. not to say it can't be done, but it's really hard. I had initially thought some sort of hydraulic equivalent to the air-muscel might be the way to go, but the difficulties in fabricating a pump that can deal with a water-based working fluid along with all the valves are just too much. trying to pursue the soft-robotc route turns the project into one of inventing the necessary components, rather than using off the shelf parts. It's just not practical unfortunately.

That brings us on to motors. The noise associated with motors is mostly the gearbox and gearing is not really suited to this project where limbs need to be able to be 'driven' manually when the robot is powered off, and take huge forces when it is operating. some compliance is needed. I propose to use high powered stepper motors, driven by DSP controllers to keep the noise down. I have some ideas for getting some mechanical advantage without an actual grarbox where it is absolutely necessary


The 3dprinting of the mould, i agree is sub-optimal but it allows people to contribute to the project and pick the bits they are interested in. with a requirement on a full-body profesional fiberglass mould . that wouldn't really be possible.

The hardest part of this thing is the skin. Yes it would need some reinforcement, i was wondering about the possibility of adding short kevlar fibers to the silicone rather than having to actually cast a fabric mesh into it. making the skin fit around the internals without leaving unnatural bulges or holes where some padding isn't quite right is a significant challenge. I understand they cast the silicone around the frame and foam filling for the pro dolls and have always wondered how they keep the frame/filling located in the center of the mould. This would be a harder problem where there are moving parts that need to not get gummed up. The whole mechanical internals would basically have to be in one big bag to keep the silicone out.
I disgree:

https://softroboticstoolkit.com/

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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by DexterQuest »

That is a great video. I do believe that is the worthwhile direction. Can you imagine the terrific applications that can be produced even before a fully working biped? Hand job, oral sex with clenching lips and moving tongue. Hard to imagine those projects with hard robotics.

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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by Navelgazer »

Rtechguy wrote:Speaking of spitballing. Very few know that the 3D printer was invented by a guy in Greenville South Carolina. He came up with the idea from spitting off of the top of a building. He imagined that if he could do that enough he could eventually construct a 3D model by layering the spitballs one on top of each other in a specific pattern. So as you see spitballing can actually turn into something extremely cool.

LMFAO! :D 8O 8)

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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

OK:

Let me expound...

I don't want an 'open source' android/robot that can either kill me outright or can rip my dick off at the root. 8O

I say no to electronic motors, no to hydraulics, yes/OK to soft robotics/pneumatics.

I have a 2D/3D pneumatic joint designs that quite frankly, solves some key regulation problems in one shot.

Pneumatics (soft robotics) is the key for weight savings, safety, power, and power regulation/reproducibility issues.

Remember the extending tube in the video? That's the hint.

Put 4 in oppossition in a 2 axis 3d printed pneumatic joint.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by oshr »

LDF:
Ok, i hear you, but how are you going to solve the following problems:
*Getting sufficient compressed air to power the parts, without an industrial compresser sat beside the thing
*controlling that compressed air in a servo loop so the muscel isn't just 'on' or 'off
*getting the air to the extremities, through moving joints (i.e to the knees, through the hips), in a way that won't ware out and start leaking after a few 10s or hundreds of actuations
*fitting the many valves needed into the body. *and* the motors to actuate them with associated electronics
*make it not sound like a steam train from the waste air and valves

as for danger, a pneumatic system could be just as bad. energy is energy. at least with a stepper motor system you don't have a massive store of compressed air waiting to escape. you can identify the mechanical failure modes, ensure they don't pose a danger, limit the current so the torque will only be what's necessary... a far simpler easier to control system

I don't disagree an entirely soft system is highly desirable, but in the last 8 years of looking i just havent found a way to make it work. some sort of vacuum based hydraulics and these muscels https://wyss.harvard.edu/actuators-inspired-by-muscle/ are as close to reasonably doable as i could get and even then cavitation in the pump would be a killer, if a suitable pump could be found at all, most commercial hydraulic systems being oil based and therefore unsuitable

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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

Excellent questions:

>
Ok, i hear you, but how are you going to solve the following problems:
*Getting sufficient compressed air to power the parts, without an industrial compresser sat beside the thing
*controlling that compressed air in a servo loop so the muscel isn't just 'on' or 'off
*getting the air to the extremities, through moving joints (i.e to the knees, through the hips), in a way that won't ware out and start leaking after a few 10s or hundreds of actuations
*fitting the many valves needed into the body. *and* the motors to actuate them with associated electronics
*make it not sound like a steam train from the waste air and valves
as for danger, a pneumatic system could be just as bad. energy is energy. at least with a stepper motor system you don't have a massive store of compressed air waiting to escape. you can identify the mechanical failure modes, ensure they don't pose a danger, limit the current so the torque will only be what's necessary... a far simpler easier to control system
<
The only thing I can't guarantee is the the compressed air tank risk. However, an electric motor can rip your dick off more easily. 8O

The 'work around' is a vacuum/pneumatic pump and power supply.

This is the kind of stuff that requires teams working to problem solve.

If I showed you the 2D pneumatic actuator, most of the issues would become crystal clear and resolved.

It's possible.

LDF.

https://softroboticstoolkit.com/
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

FYI:

3D printing for soft robotics – a review.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5917433/
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by SuperNothing »

Static tank cylinders would solve the compressor problem. You keep that beast in the garage to charge and swap out small cylinders. Just like with electricity, you can regulate pressure and flow. The challenge I see is where the air escapes to when discharged from a relaxed actuator, unless you want to port it all to her booty and make a Flatu-Bot :roll: :lol:
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

I did a back of the envelope calculation for a 10L 20MPa tank, containing 2.4 kg of compressed air..

It could contain enough energy (approx. 250kJ) to lift a 25kg 'doll' 1 km.

It's do-able, but there are other challenges.

What do you do with excess pressure?

Power a vacuum pump or generator.

Just for clarification, we don't need to completely empty 'soft muscle' actuators of air/pressure to make things work.

We do need to 'Project Apollo' the heck out of power recovery, etc. .

For instance, what happens to the air/pressure contained in the soft muscle of an extended arm when you 'open the valve'?

We can recover some energy in cases like that. How? Dunno yet.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by rubherkitty »

Probably some irrelevant ideas as I have not watches any of the vids or researched this.

As LFD mentioned, an inflated muscle does not have to be fully evacuated of air.
Might be a situation where bled off air does other actuations.
Bled off air might be used to operate a chest movement breathing mechanism that everyone wants and the air actually expelled out the mouth through a baffle system?

As I've mentioned in other topics of breath simulation, you need high volume low pressure like those hospital breathing machines.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by SuperNothing »

rubherkitty wrote:Probably some irrelevant ideas as I have not watches any of the vids or researched this.

As LFD mentioned, an inflated muscle does not have to be fully evacuated of air.
Might be a situation where bled off air does other actuations.
Bled off air might be used to operate a chest movement breathing mechanism that everyone wants and the air actually expelled out the mouth through a baffle system?

As I've mentioned in other topics of breath simulation, you need high volume low pressure like those hospital breathing machines.
Ooh. I like it. Dual booby bladders.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

SuperNothing wrote:
rubherkitty wrote:Probably some irrelevant ideas as I have not watches any of the vids or researched this.

As LFD mentioned, an inflated muscle does not have to be fully evacuated of air.
Might be a situation where bled off air does other actuations.
Bled off air might be used to operate a chest movement breathing mechanism that everyone wants and the air actually expelled out the mouth through a baffle system?

As I've mentioned in other topics of breath simulation, you need high volume low pressure like those hospital breathing machines.
Ooh. I like it. Dual booby bladders.
Booby Bladders! Of course!

We're using thermoplastic rubber/elastomers in our dolls anyway.

We can 3D print elastomeric bladders.

I think waste air can evacuate from the neck joint.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by SuperNothing »

LDF wrote:
I think waste air can evacuate from the neck joint.
I would rather she fart, but only if it has patented "new car smell".
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by LDF »

While anatomically correct muscles seem attractive, I've got to keep the joints dual axis for now with two opposing muscles per axis.

At least that's a design I'm considering 3D printing for an 'exploration'.

Look at it this way, it's much easier to translate a 2 axis pneumatic joint actuator to the current skeletons of dolls than to redesign an entire doll voxel by voxel.

All 'fart' jokes aside, there are no cheaply available robot bodies out there.

Even the current animatronic heads are pricey.

So, there isn't a body/head for an AI enthusiast to work with.
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Re: open source 'humanoid robot' project suggestions needed

Post by SuperNothing »

This guy did an interesting hack of the toy Elvis robot head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdHOvJoCCM

I've modified the look of these before but not into a female. His still looks rather butch as he's using the original "skin" and the jaw is way too wide and masculine. Are there TPE sex doll "masks" available that could be fitted to a modified robotic skull?

My project was years before Wowee stopped making the heads. The team I worked with hacked into the control and ported the movements into MIDI commands that I controlled with music sequence software which was great for working with it on a scrolling "piano roll" timeline.
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