Brand New Doll From Matt McMullen

raysmod · Post by **raysmod** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:43 pm

Bronwen,

Yes you should be given respect, as all members who contribute here, seek. Its been a bit confusing for us all, as you realiise with the advent of Boytoy; making the correct differentatiion between Abyss and Phoenix Enterprises.

Even their representative here, got some facts wrong. However, you have explained the situation both thoroughly and concisely.

We do get very excited at the Doll Forum when a new doll comes out and sometimes enthusism overtakes the facts. No offense intended in my previous posts and I look forward to further news from both companies.

flavortang · Post by **flavortang** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:48 pm

I think that the amount of interaction/communication between Abyss/Phoenix and TDF is incredible. It's basically a direct link with companies that produce products we admire and enjoy.

Bronwen, I've written you before, but feel guilty about thinking about doing so in the future, knowing you're so busy. lol

plaedoh · Post by **plaedoh** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:56 pm

Wow! I am very excited to login and see the Boy Toy. The product looks really great! My first impression was both excitement and soon after dissapointment. Excitement=great looking product. Dissapointment=price. With BoyToy I was counting on the price being lower than realdoll. It wasn't. Ya know, there's probably many people out there just like me who would make great owners and long term buyers and hobbyists but just can't get into it because of price. I thought after seeing BoyToy (before seeing the price) that I could compromise some realism and size for a cartoon look with lower price. When I saw the price I thought, "it can't be". I'm so dissapointed to be again priced out of the market and that the products continue to be RD'd, deployed and finally enjoyed by only the wealthy.

Aside from this, great job to Pheonix and this new product. The product really is great looking from the pics. I really would have jumped on the BoyToy (jumped on

) if the price would have been lower.

I continue to respect Realdoll products and soon Phoenix Boy Toys. Great job and I wish these companies continued success. Many hand claps for both of them. Please try and lower the prices though...please, please

Back to the background I go.....dratz

Post by **phoenixstudios** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:22 pm

Actually what Joe meant is exactly what Joe said

Everything I post on here is factual and if I'm uncertain about something I check with Matt M. before I make a post.

Abyss wrote:
What Joe meant to say is that Abyss is run by Matt Krivicke, not Matt McMullen. Matt M has not been involved with the daily goings on at Abyss for several years and continues to leave the company in the competent hands of Matt K and his staff. It is also inaccurate information that Matt M is coming into the Abyss facility to work on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis. He does stop by occasionally for a few minutes to check in but he is not working there or developing anything new for Abyss at this time. All new development and top level management is being handled by Matt K. The two Matts will collaborate on implementing any features from the Boy Toy dolls into the RealDolls when and if the time arises but this is not in the works right now.

Matt M has focused his entire attention on Boy Toy Dolls in the past few months and will be continuing that focus with his 2 full time employees, Joe & Rinat, and 1 part time employee, Ron. Ron Wilson is currently a full time employee of Abyss Creations whose sole position is to build the skeletons. Ron has been an employee of Abyss Creations for 9 years and works with Matt M on the side to produce the skeletons for the Boy Toy product as well.

Joe has only recently joined Phoenix Studios and possibly hasn’t learned all the ins and outs of either company or their histories yet.

plaedoh · Post by **plaedoh** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:24 pm

Slight clarification:

After seeing a prior post from Matt M and his info about BoyToys being his latest innovation of art and creativity I thought I should scale back from the "wealthy" comment I made prior - just a bit. The BoyToy is fine art and a new idea of creativity to resolve many peoples requests. Art and quality can be costly and maybe I will try to "afford" rather than hope for cheap prices. Again, many thanks to the fine work being put into real substance. Thanks Matt!!

artist69 · Post by **artist69** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:47 pm

As a manufacture of pieces of art and fine craftmanship I believe thats what these dolls are and quality and craftmanship with lots of expensive materials and man hrs cost money.I look at each realdoll and am amazed.
"Wow would you look at that "I say to myself.

I make one of a kind pieces of furniture and furniture quality cabinets for people that like to spend lots of money in LA and Im always busy and never need to advertise.all word of mouth.Theres always people out there willing to spend big bucks for nice things.I might make a buffet or china hutch,Armoire,Or wall unit that costs $7500 -$8500 or a table that costs $6000 and believe it or not I barely get buy because of all the overhead ,high cost of material,and tons of hrs invested in each piece.
I stand buy everything I make and nobodys ever asked for a refund in the 12yrs Ive been in Business.Buy the way One generally doesnt do refunds in the custom world.Im sure realdoll stands by all their great works of art.
Everything just needs to be put into perspective.
Hats off to Realdoll and everyone that gets one.

Artist69

flavortang · Post by **flavortang** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:43 am

artist69 wrote:As a manufacture of pieces of art and fine craftmanship I believe thats what these dolls are and quality and craftmanship with lots of expensive materials and man hrs cost money.I look at each realdoll and am amazed.
"Wow would you look at that "I say to myself.

I make one of a kind pieces of furniture and furniture quality cabinets for people that like to spend lots of money in LA and Im always busy and never need to advertise.all word of mouth.Theres always people out there willing to spend big bucks for nice things.I might make a buffet or china hutch,Armoire,Or wall unit that costs $7500 -$8500 or a table that costs $6000 and believe it or not I barely get buy because of all the overhead ,high cost of material,and tons of hrs invested in each piece.
I stand buy everything I make and nobodys ever asked for a refund in the 12yrs Ive been in Business.Buy the way One generally doesnt do refunds in the custom world.Im sure realdoll stands by all their great works of art.
Everything just needs to be put into perspective.
Hats off to Realdoll and everyone that gets one.

Artist69

Exactly. These dolls are works of art and are priced accordingly. People seem to use the simple mathematics of adding together the approximate cost of materials and assume that the price shouldn't be much more than that, which is a silly and naive perspective. You have to take into account the time and labor from the artist creating each doll and what his/her time is worth. If you want something stamped out on an assembly line, go buy a hamburger at McDonalds. What do those things cost? A buck? That's because a 17-year old kid who probably didn't graduate high school is tossing the burger together based on a shortlist of memorized directions.

Art isn't for cheapskates. Either earn more to afford a high-end doll or just sit back and admire them for what they are: unattainable masterpieces.

artist69 · Post by **artist69** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:23 am

Flavortang

Exactly! I give my customers the price of whats its going to cost and if they dont want to pay for it thats fine with me .They can step aside because theirs always someone in front and back of them that are willing to pay no scabling or no questionsed asked.I can selectively choose my jobs and who I want to work for and I cant stand working for cheapskates that want a freebee ,grind you down,want a discount and the whole deal.I spend a lot of time doing hand drawn designs,blueprints and illustrations and expect to get paid for that.They can pound sand as far as Im consirned and get junk work for nothing somewhere else.I barely make a profit at what I do to start with if i do at all.My time as a craftsman and an artist is worth money and Im sure all the employees at Abyss are all talented and payed accordingly.All of us want to get paid for our skills and what we think we are worth.

Artist69

glyph127 · Post by **glyph127** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:40 am

flavortang wrote:
artist69 wrote:These dolls are works of art and are priced accordingly. People seem to use the simple mathematics of adding together the approximate cost of materials and assume that the price shouldn't be much more than that, which is a silly and naive perspective. You have to take into account the time and labor from the artist creating each doll and what his/her time is worth.

Art isn't for cheapskates. Either earn more to afford a high-end doll or just sit back and admire them for what they are: unattainable masterpieces.

I get the feeling that people are reacting the way they are towards the price of the BoyToy because perhaps many were hoping for a more affordable doll with comparable qualities to the Realdoll or a Realdoll with similar improvements, but not at a higher cost. What they see here firsthand with the BoyToy is a doll that is lighter but smaller in dimension- beautiful, but with a fantasy look instead of the realism of a Realdoll at an even higher price-despite the fact that improvements were made that might justify a higher cost than the Realdoll-Im not sure. After all, lets be real-though the Realdoll and BoyToy are magnificent works of art and Abyss/Phoenixstudios might see them firsthand as finely crafted works marketed for the high end consumer who can afford them, the reality is that MOST people who do purchase them or want one (and hang out here on the dollforum) are probably men with average earnings who want to use them primarily for fantasy companionship and sexual purposes and not merely as pieces of art to display or show off. I could be wrong, but they probably wouldn't even buy one at these prices if it could not be used for these reasons. These companies would probably have difficulty staying in business or would have to charge even higher prices to do so if it were not for this type of consumer. And there are probably quite a few in this category who do want one but just have difficulty seeing it as an affordable luxury at the current price.
As was mentioned earlier-if anyone feels that the BoyToy is too expensive dont complain about it-just dont buy it. If Abyss/Phoenixstudios feel that they can justify a cheaper price due to competition, lower production costs, or whatever, Im sure they will when the time comes as long as they can earn enough of a profit to stay in business and earn what they believe their special talents are worth. Until then, if it is something you must have, you will probably do like most of us did for our Realdolls and find a way to eventually get one. As for myself, I think that BoyToy is a fine looking doll, but personally would rather have a Realdoll because I dont like thin bodies and prefer realism to fantasy.

artist69 · Post by **artist69** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:48 am

I just heard a lot of discussion about the cost and it (BoyToys and Realdolls)being expensive.
To me its like ok they are $7500.Maybe even more then that if you add the outrageous Ca.Sales tax.They are awesome and second to none.I Would love to have one if I had all the money in the world someday.Reality is.I cant afford one and I will find something I can."NEXT"! On to thinking about something else.

Crazyhorse · Post by **Crazyhorse** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:15 am

... and despite already having a whole seperate thread for complaints/defense about the price... this one goes totally off track again....

Wildcard2007 · Post by **Wildcard2007** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:27 am

Abyss wrote: Matt K, in fact, was working with a body 8 last week which he dropped repeatedly while trying to photograph it (they don’t like to sit on bar stools unsupported but Matt prefers to use no stands when possible in photographing the dolls). The doll he dropped has NO damage to it despite being dropped 3 feet multiple times at multiple angles. It didn’t even get a finger wire poking through.

hi there ms, Bronwen i'm not sure what to make of this all but for the record of it, when i got Jennifer the first day i sat her down on the sofa and she had her hands on one end on the side, the other hand on the front part of the seat, As i made her bend forward just a bit she popped 4 fingers at the same time.

That is, the wire caps forced themselfves threugh the nails and even though this was a very easy fix that can probbably easy be completly made invisable with a nails repair set(provided i do that with the two one might or might not see) this was not the last time something like this happened.

Please anybody who reads this, READ THIS CORRECT because i take full resposibility for that happening, i KNEW they where fragile and please do keep this in mind but i'm sure If Jennifer hit's the ground in a drop and her fingers slide or touch the floor first i'm sure it will rip her hand bassicly to pieces where you won't even bother calling it a finger poke no more.

I assume Matt was very lucky when dropping the doll 3 times and that you can by no means expect you can do this and get away with it.

you probbably won't.

Either way I do not regret having finger wires for Jennifer, i'm sure a nails nipple repair set Jennifer will fix the problems(if you can call it that) i have because of something i gotten, not because of something i lost, i have to maintain everything i have, including myself and why would Jennifer have to be different ?

Doodads · Post by **Doodads** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:33 pm

phoenixstudios wrote:There will only be as many dolls as there are days in the month and that includes faces, and you must own the boy toy doll in order to buy the faces.

Example:
15 January Boy Toy Dolls Sold
16 January Boy Toy Faces Sold (to other owners of the boy toy doll)

=

Miss. January sold out!

I see what you are saying nuzzler but that's not really the case here because when/if Matt decides to do variations on the body down the road the other dolls won't be available assuming there sold out. I can't stress enough that these are limited edition and handmade/hand detailed @ Phoenix Studios.

nuzzler wrote:I would think that, even after a model sells out, you could still order the body with a particular face and wig, etc. and it would be like getting the same doll, just without the certificate of authenticity. It wouldn't be a limited edition, but that way they could keep selling dolls after the initial run had sold out.

So what happens after 310 Boy Toy bodies are sold and 10% of these owners decide every month to buy a new face? 31 faces sold and no bodies? Will Matt be concerned that his income of Boy Toys has just dropped 90%?? Will he have enough money after this to further develop his product with a rapidly diminishing return?

Will not the rapidly expanding number of body owners and a percentage of them placing orders on new faces cause the limitation of body production to very low numbers?

I woke yesterday morning thinking about this basic economic issue. That rationing leads to shortages and shortages leads to higher prices.

BelShanar · Post by **BelShanar** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:01 pm

For me, choosing to order was a bit of a few things. Partly a new doll toy for sexual purposes. Hey, I'm a guy, and I'll admit that.

Secondly, as I have mentioned before, was the chance to get in on something early on that could go huge.

I wonder if the first person to order a RD way back when had the same thoughts.

As for the artistic part of it. Sure I'll try to take pictures, and I will certainly share them here. But to share her with people in my reallife life? Probably not. There are only two people in my real life who would even remotely understand, and even then, I'm terrified that they would still judge me for it.

One of them is my best friend, and though she would never think less of me for it, it would change things and not for the better I think.

The other is a great friend of mine who is happily married, and a self professed sexual freak (in a good way). I would love to tell her and show her the doll, but since we also work together, I don't know that she could keep the secret. If it were to get out where I work that I had a doll of any kind, much like this, I'd NEVER live it down.

And please, no more discussion about price in this thread.

Doodads · Post by **Doodads** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:25 pm

BelShaner, i would guard your secret like a State secret. A wise person once wrote "If you think you can trust someone with a secret that could hurt you if revealed, don't". In the case of the dolls even trusted friends might find it too tempting to tell another trusted friend and so on and so on and so on. There is the humor in their minds of this activity that they would be bursting to tell others about. Then there is that these particular dolls look young with their oversized heads and big doe eyes. You would have to deal with that in addition to all the rest. Let other people know could really fook up your life!

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