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This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Germany

Dollstudio focuses on life-like dolls made of silicone and TPE, with products spanning from life-sized love dolls and manikins over miniature companions to 1/6 scale miniatures. Based in Europe, Dollstudio is an authorized vendor for respected manufacturers like Doll Sweet, Ruby13, Maidlee Doll, Dream Doll Creation, OR Doll, WM Dolls, YL Doll, JM Doll, Sanhui, Hitdoll, Onedoll, and Lovely Doll. By default, we're shipping from Germany with all customs and taxes cleared.
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by haremlover »

Yes - this doll belongs to a friend of mine.

As this is a Jinsan issue rather than any particular brand issue I wrote to both Eric and Sam as below and did not receive the courtesy of a reply.

I believe it's pretty unique however to the African skin tone.

Another vendor who is a friend reported to me similar experience with one of the Jinsan African skin tone dolls.

Best wishes

Harem
Dear Sam and Eric

I'm writing to you as the producers of the largest numbers of dolls as the majority of the Jinsan output.

Attached are some photos that I took today of an 18th month old Jinsan doll of which I know the origins as a genuine Jinsan doll and her intervening history.

The doll has been owned by a female art student who, obviously, has not used it for sexual purposes. Were this doll to have been owned by a male and used sexually and had the usual damage to private parts we'd blame it on the customer rather than the factory the temptation would be to blame the customer. But this doll has not been used and the student didn't have time to do photography with the doll that she expected to achieve during her degree course. So the doll stood in her room, and for the last nine months has been laying down stored at her parents' home.

Effectively without any use at all the TPE has fallen to pieces within 18 months.

With a soldering station I was able to heal cracks at the surface but when bent they opened up again.

The student is taking a year off and returning to do a Masters Degree in the psychology of photography the following year and in which she expected to be using her doll. In the event, it won't survive a year of non-use in the meantime.

The quality of this output of the Jinsan factory from December 2016 / January 2017 is unacceptable and of great concern and needs to be drawn to the attention of the factory management at the highest level.

Best wishes,

nukeno
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by nukeno »

Thanks Sandro and Harem for replying,
although you had no good news for me either.
I can only hope that it's not getting much worse than that.
If it does, I will try to make the best of it as I always do.
As long as the head does not degrade, I'll probably find a work around.

For now, she has to stand like this. At least the damages are not visible that way.
P1080219b.jpg
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by haremlover »

If she stands like that she'll crack at the back of her legs.

This is a subject upon which both Sam and Eric need to be armtwisted to respond. Either I have the wrong email address for Sam or he's giving me the cold shoulder for pointing out uncomfortable truths . . . but my art student friend is rather devastated at the falling to pieces of the doll I gave her and I'm sure these cases aren't unique.

Best wishes

Harem
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by nukeno »

haremlover wrote:If she stands like that she'll crack at the back of her legs.
Well we will see.
There is no other way.
She either stands or sits on the furry ball.
I'll have to live with the damages that will occur either way.
And I'll show her as she is, even if she turns into a half rotten "zombie" one day... :lol:
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by Arthur1960 »

Hi, sorry to see that your gal has suffered from the damage as detailed in this thread. I also have a darker skin toned doll, a WM157B and after about 6 weeks I began to notice similar skin problems, albeit on a smaller scale, where the tpe seemed to be separating mainly on areas where there was a joint, one elbow was the worse affected area. At first I was scratching my head as to the cause as I currently have 8 dolls and this was the first to suffer such damage so quickly and for no obvious reason. I have spoken to my vendor who has had word back from the Jinsan factory that there does seem to be an issue with the darker tpe inasmuch that it seems weaker and more prone to separation in certain conditions. Today I did a repair on the elbow damage using a hot air rework station and it seems to have been successful. One thing I noticed is that the tpe began to soften at a lower temp then the lighter tpe, at 75c it was very soft and workable so I was able to smooth it. From this experience my thoughts are that the darker tpe seems to have a lower melting point and that any compression when the tpe is warm (such as the recent hot spell) will cause compression marks that then can lead to actual separation of the tpe in these areas, so you get a straight line of separation at the top of some stockings etc. I had the same effect with a pair of fishnet gloves where the tpe separated in a straight line around the thumb and little finger. I am lucky that I caught my gals damage early and now armed with what I have learned I will clearly have to treat her differently from my other gals and maybe oil her a little more frequently while keeping her a bit cooler. I do hope that you get some help/advice from the factory as your gals damage looks a bit more extensive and is certainly not what you would expect with a doll that's only a few months old. Good luck!

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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by nukeno »

Arthur1960 wrote:One thing I noticed is that the tpe began to soften at a lower temp then the lighter tpe, at 75c it was very soft and workable so I was able to smooth it. From this experience my thoughts are that the darker tpe seems to have a lower melting point and that any compression when the tpe is warm (such as the recent hot spell) will cause compression marks that then can lead to actual separation of the tpe
Thanks Arthur, that's actually a good hint.
The heat wave we had the last days and weeks certainly might have accelerated the decay if the material "melts" at only 75°C.
The temperature in my apartment has risen over 35°C during the day for several days in a row in the last week alone.
Unfortunately I don't own a rework station and with a unregulated hot air gun I won't attempt to do repairs.
But you have given me hope. :)
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by haremlover »

Actually I think that all affected should put pressure on Jinsan.

I tried a repair with a rework station but the TPE really didn't want to melt much at 150, even 200 and I had to go to near 250 to get the surface to melt and flow and even then it didn't flow properly into the cracks.

When the doll was brand new out of the box she was shockingly oily and had to be powdered before she could be handled at all. In due course I'll post more photos but this doll has really suffered in not doing very much. It's very distressing to see. Others that have started on her path will progress.

As this doll came to me by accident for having fought UK Border Force I'm not in a position to complain. She cost me just the import fees, around £140 I recall. But for those who have paid full price these dolls are unfit for purpose and should be replaced by Jinsan with a doll of tan complexion rather than black if the black is the problem.

Best wishes

Harem
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by Dollstudio »

Hi,

for the record, Eric offered a free head for compensation. nukeno refused as he does not need another head.

In this case a replacement in a different skin color would not help as the "Nava" skin tone was the deciding reason to choose a Jinsan doll, if I remember correctly.

As far as repair attempts are concerned, I told nukeno which options exist:
  • either based on temperature (temperature-controlled hot air blower or welding with a rework station),
  • or chemically (with Indigo's TPE repair kit).
Working with temperature is the way it is done at the TPE factories to smoothen seamlines and to fix surface imperfections;hot welding is also a proper method to fix the TPE plug issue. However, at home I would not necessarily recommend it for two reasons: firstly because of the toxic TPE fumes, and secondly because it requires proper training. Getting the TPE melted is relatively easy, but getting a smooth surface is a different pair of shoes. And in nukeno's case, I don't think that hot-welding would help against the issues he is facing, as long as he proceeds with his art project (sitting posture, wearing fishnet stockings etc.).

The chemical approach would include to adhese the cracks caused by overstretching and then smooth the surface. However, the challenge in this case is that nukeno wants to use the doll for something she is not designed for - permanently remain in a sitting pose. The key to repair stretching tears is to relieve tension, in this case this would mean to stretch the legs respectively elbows. This would be the normal approach, but it is not what nukeno wants. The normal repair would be negated as soon as he starts to let her permanently sit again.

For this particular case, the material tension would have to remain, resulting in the equivalent of material loss (the space between the cracks). To compensate, one could try to fill the cracks with TPE paste and re-model the knee area for sitting. This would be an experimental procedure and could result in a TPE doll capable of sitting permanently.

The alternative approach for the whole project would have been to use a sitting mannequin like this:
s-l1600.jpg
s-l1600.jpg (73.04 KiB) Viewed 1446 times
A mannequin like this can
  • sit unharmed for years,
  • wear fishnet stockings over extended periods of time and
  • will not be damaged by an occasional heat wave.
The downside is that such a mannequin comes in the wrong skin color and has a head/eyes which would not work well for what nukeno seems to have had in mind. Such an approach would have required to to the mannequin's skin down by airbrushing, and then re-work the head.

Sandro
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by nukeno »

haremlover wrote:Actually I think that all affected should put pressure on Jinsan.
If you like to start a thread in the YL section, I'll cross post my case there, so the issue draws a bit more attention.

If I remember correctly it was Nouchi, who also got a black Jinsan doll that has shown nasty wounds shortly after its arrival.
There was a thread about it, but I think they reached an agreement, so it got closed/deleted.

Otherwise, sure, having a damaged doll already is a bummer, but for me there are no better alternatives.
I wanted a black one and I wanted the #193 head, so it had to be a Jinsan doll (unfortunately).
A 6Ye-hybrid may have worked, or not, hard to tell, haven't seen one yet.
But who knows if 6Ye's dark TPE formula is better than Jinsan's...?
And getting a replacement body in tan wouldn't work for me either. :(

But with every crisis, comes new opportunity.
I think I ditch the furry ball, let her stand, and add a couple more details to her outfit, that also cover up the wounds.
It might actually improve the whole project, and I wouldn't have thought about it if it wasn't for the damages caused by the fishnet stockings.
So yeah it's a bummer on one hand, and exciting on the other. So I'm surprisingly “balanced” about the whole issue right now. :)
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by nukeno »

Dollstudio wrote:The alternative approach for the whole project would have been to use a sitting mannequin like this...
Yeah, mannequins would be probably "best" for all my projects and they are really cheap too.
Kiko hangs at the cross 24/7, cyba sits on her throne 24/7, Nele rides her one-legged-stallion 24/7...
and Mamamba will sit (or stand) 24/7 when I'll have finished her project.

Only, I don't like mannequins, because they look like mannequins. :)
And they only have very limited range of movement, if any at all.

Nele my silicone DS160 by the way still hasn't got any additional damages due to sitting in the saddle and wearing very tight clothes 24/7.
(BTW I will replace her "horse" by something else to ride on as soon as I get to it and keep her riding until the end of the world.) ;)

The best dolls IMHO for my kind of projects actually are cyba the ExLite and Kiko my Happydoll.
But I wanted black skin and a curvy body for this one, so I had to go with a TPE doll this time.

There are pros and cons to everything. I knew I would have to deal with defects sooner or later.
As long as the doll doesn't fall apart completely and if the damages are fixable or hide-able, I'll be fine with it.

Nevertheless, my next dolls will be a silicone and a fabric Happydoll again.
And I'll probably work more with flesh colored latex and spandex catsuits and masks... :)
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by NeedWaifu »

Wow that doll got so weary from fishnets and knees.. Before this post I was 40% positive on trying tpe doll at least once, but now Its PS only.. no matter how pretty the girls look. :|
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by Arthur1960 »

NeedWaifu wrote:Wow that doll got so weary from fishnets and knees.. Before this post I was 40% positive on trying tpe doll at least once, but now Its PS only.. no matter how pretty the girls look. :|
It's important to remember that this appears to be an issue with the darker skin tones from the Jinsan factory and the other skin tones are much more resilient. There can be a significant variation in tpe blends and while my dark skin tpe gal is more vulnerable to damage from heat and compression marks my other gals are less of a worry in that regard.

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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by haremlover »

Oh I'm so disappointed. Eric isn't known for magnanimity, quite the reverse. I asked him if he might be able to to help out baling out a customer let down by the X/S debacle and his response was a cold and stony NO. From the numbers of dolls he sells he must make millions <removed, Rule 3>

Best wishes

Harem
Last edited by Nescio50 on Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by Dollstudio »

@harem: You might want to rephrase your judgment about Eric. At least he did respond, and he made an offer. 90% of the other manufacturers would simply give you the silent treatment.

How exactly turned your case with the doll from Joyce out in the end? Did Phil from The Doll House receive a replacement from Joyce, or was it a freebie anyway?

Sandro
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Re: This YL Doll YL-165 with Allura head #193 travels to Ger

Post by haremlover »

Nukeno - I have posted as you have asked viewtopic.php?f=212&t=104377 and please go for the jugular and accept nothing less than full satisfaction. Many people have bought these African dolls and your evidence is vital in the protection of others.

Sandro - no - Eric's response is disgraceful and I'll certainly rephrase my opinion of him: it's entirely within the Chinese idiom of "we've sold you rubbish so you can have more rubbish in compensation". Load of use it is offering a new free head to be put onto a decaying and terminally faulty body.

He might have achieved higher placement in my estimation were he to have responded to my email - which asked him for nothing more than to draw the matter to Jinsan's management.

I haven't raised the issue with Joyce because she'd already sent a free doll to replace the one incarcerated by customs, and been put to loss, and I came by this one because the customer then with two dolls, one free, offered her to me for having fought the case with Customs and got her unimpounded. This is a Jinsan issue and YL and WM are the major financial levers at the factory.

I have a tan OR doll which is in perfectly good condition. The problem is with the African colour only.

Best wishes

Harem
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