It is currently Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:48 pm

Forum Rules,TOS and Privacy Policy | By visiting this website and viewing the pages within, you accept and agree to be bound by and comply with our Rules Of Conduct, Terms Of Use and Privacy Policy.


Additional Forum Rules,TOS and Privacy Policy


Please click on either selection to view: Rules Of Conduct | Terms Of Use




 Page 1 of 28 [ 412 posts ]  
Search for:
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 28  Next
   
 Post subject: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:46 pm 
Staff
Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:00 am
Posts: 467
Location: CoverDoll Group
WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls

TDF Management has been reviewing its validation system for young looking dolls. TDF does not condone or allow the presence of dolls whose faces or bodies may be deemed by experts and authorities to be representative of children. Staff discussions take place on a continuing basis and dolls are rated on the basis of a majority vote. When a doll's face or body is deemed to look under the age of 18 it will not be allowed to be displayed or promoted at any Doll Forum or Coverdoll gallery or website. We are not prohibiting members from having them nor manufacturers from selling them. We are only prohibiting them from being direct linked to, displayed or promoted on our websites. TDF has taken this stance in response to current global sentiments towards pedophilia and current trends by governments in dealing with pedophilia.

Most recent example is proposed legislation by the USA (which may or may not be passed). However those who have paid for and have product in transit could be affected by the passing of such bills and faced with seizures. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/ ... 55/text/ih

Please note that small dolls that would appear as an adult if up-scaled to adult height are permitted. Just like any other product they would be considered scale models made smaller for the purpose of travel, storage, and physical limitations of the buyer, etc.

Buyers from Western countries and perhaps some Eastern countries should exercise caution when ordering dolls that may be deemed by authorities as having features representative of children. Even dolls that appear to some as of age, could be seized by authorities in any country.

Purchasers who do have a valid scientific argument as to their doll being of age, should consider if they wish to risk going through the ordeal of disputing a seized doll they are attempting to import.

There is science behind the subject and the authorities will likely be using experts to back them up on their decisions should there be a dispute. Even if the manufacturer claims the doll to be of age, it will carry no weight with local authorities without scientifically supported argument.

It is unlikely that size itself will play a large factor unless the features on the body are without question childlike. We have scale models for cars, buildings, military soldiers and vehicles, and people. If the doll body is small but the features are proportional that if increased to average adult height they would be representative of adult then the body should pass. There is also a science in addressing physical development of the body.

However, the number one item used in determining age would be faces. Here is some of the science behind age estimation based on the face or head:
This article contains the following guide images: https://www.craftsy.com/blog/2013/08/ch ... oportions/
Attachment:
AdultChildProfiles.png
AdultChildProfiles.png [ 46.72 KiB | Viewed 64976 times ]

Attachment:
adultchild-compare.png
adultchild-compare.png [ 40.91 KiB | Viewed 64975 times ]

Attachment:
adultchild_Proportions.png
adultchild_Proportions.png [ 74.95 KiB | Viewed 64975 times ]

Attachment:
FacialFeatures.png
FacialFeatures.png [ 38.76 KiB | Viewed 64975 times ]


Attachment:
facechart.jpg
facechart.jpg [ 297.55 KiB | Viewed 64975 times ]


In depth discussion on age estimation:
If you wish to discuss this topic please keep it orderly. We do not want any member disputes as to how old any specific doll looks. Any links to sites that would be helpful in evaluating representative ages would be welcome and TDF Management is happy to answer any questions if qualified to do so.


 MSNM/WLM Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:13 pm 
Senior Member
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:37 pm
Posts: 264
Location: UK
I think the Forum's stance on this is fair enough. I won't go into the ins and outs of how best to do it, but as a community we need to distance ourselves from the illegal/morally dodgy parts of the sex doll world.

As for ageing a doll, I think this site has been mentioned before, possibly by Haremlover? - How Old? From that link, my doll is between 20 and 29, depending on hair, makeup, etc.



_____________________________
Companion of the lovely Lyngheiður a.k.a Lynne - A WM153 #85 - now she has a Doll Album!
Say Hi to her on "Dolls Alive"! - Lynne's Page
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:03 pm 
Vendor Affiliated
Vendor Affiliated

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:32 am
Posts: 12884
How old is subjective at best. Human growth charts give the best idea of scale.

Protecting this forum and some semblance of moral decency is important.



_____________________________
The empty orchestra still plays.
Bored, certified "plastic" surgeon. Serving the masses.
Dolls i have worked on. Real doll ,JM doll,teddybabes,Anime fabric doll,wm doll, d.s dolls, Diao shi, extravaganza air dolls, 1st pc, and candy8teen dolls.

Need work done? Feel free to send me a note.
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:10 pm 
Senior Member
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:50 pm
Posts: 420
Location: California
Since interest in dolls is getting more popular all I got to say is this is a smart move.


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:21 pm 
Ex-Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:15 pm
Posts: 2673
Muninn wrote:
as a community we need to distance ourselves from the illegal/morally dodgy parts of the sex doll world.


Could not agree more with that. The mainstream is putting more and more attention and scrutiny on us, so the government is too. It was only a matter of time. Obviously, how we represent ourselves from now on could not be more important. Prove to the cops that we're not doing anything wrong, by supporting the cops when it comes to things that are.


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:32 pm 
Doll Visionary
Doll Visionary
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 12:00 am
Posts: 12803
Location: UK and South of France
Very helpful condensation of issues here.

Perhaps manufacturers making known dolls which pass criteria might apply for a TDF certificate which could be packed inside the packaging of a doll for shipping.

That certificate could refer to this post and certify that by consensus that particular model of doll has been certified by doll experts.

The DS 100cm Eve is a case in point where in particular one member's recent photos demonstrate her absolutely to be adult.

DS faces for 145cm dolls sKayla, sSandy, Lilith and from memory Ruby might also usefully be certified.

Certification of particular models and faces with specific manufacturers accredited to TDF and willing to work with certification might bring diminishing uncertainties and, as a professional organisation's considered opinion, allow less expert border officers to feel more able to rely on established opinion and resulting professionalism of consideration.

Best wishes

Harem



_____________________________
Aira and Chloé are DS DollSweet platinum silicone Déessses.
Chloé and her DS sisters and Rose from OR (Oriental Rose) star in many stories.
Image
Chloé's book is now available from https://www.the-doll-house.com/literature-chloe-by-haremlover.html and Cloud Climax
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Here's Chloé and Yolanda in CoverDoll in the doll-friendly South of France
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Increasingly a reviewer of dolls and adviser to manufacturers, encouraging all to highest quality.
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:56 pm 
Senior Member
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:35 am
Posts: 201
is the Z1 A45 head consider too young then? looks early 20s to me but others may disagree.



_____________________________
Selling my (2) beauties.

WM 152cm with head 142 and 46 $1000 local pickup or $1200 shipped.
Z1 151cm with head A45 and A35 $1000 local pickup or $1200 shipped.

PM me for pics.
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:07 pm 
Senior Member
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:37 am
Posts: 314
:)



_____________________________
Check out my beautiful Kim here. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=100219
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:23 pm 
Doll Mentor
Doll Mentor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 1467
Location: near fantasy island
Fair enough.

concerning my avatar signature:
I removed the link to my blog.

Regards.


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:58 pm 
Senior Member
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Oklahoma
yo where does the 140 cm doll fall on this? I've seen plenty of college girls bout that small and they were legal.. :?


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:08 pm 
Doll Elder
Doll Elder

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:57 am
Posts: 2211
Important note - I have ZERO interest in any petite young looking dolls - in fact I am quite the opposite - I have a range of dolls ranging from 23-43kgs even though I have signifcant back injuries as I really love those full sized super busty dolls. I am just wanting to through some ideas here for thought and discussion that these things are perhaps not always as clear cut as they may appear.


Haremlover - as usual mate - you are very insightful with your thoughts and comments.

It is important that we keep a somewhat 'balanced approach' to all of this. We certainly need to make sure that we do not promote any dolls that can be considered of dubious legal age however do we need to have some room for artistic flare and interpretation? The 100 and 135 Piper doll range comes to mind. Both very lovely dolls and pretty faces but they do look a bit young to me. If we go by the 'upscaling to adult height' then I would say these dolls should be ok.

When you look at some of the lovely photos of the Piper doll by a highly respected TDF there is no doubt that he always represents his dolls as beautiful works of art. No one should ever question his high morals etc so in my opinion this doll is fine and a lovely work of art.

There have been other TDF members who have been challenged by management regarding the more petite dolls. I know a certain person to be of the highest morals and ethics and yet he was still challenged by management.

I am just suggesting that we need to tread carefully - there are many people who does not even use their dolls in a sexual way. We saw that guy in Asia who bought a couple of smaller child like dolls to try and comfort him after losing his children to illness.... in this case he simply wanted a doll that represented his beloved lost child - so should we deny him this opportunity? I don't know the answers I am just putting the ideas out there to think about. Personally before I saw the full sized love dolls a few years ago I actually thought 'regular' dolls were all a bit creepy.... so the idea of young child-like doll is actually creepy to me on all levels, but in the case of the Asian guy who had lost his children, surely we need to have compassion in a case like this...

One of the problems is that many people (due to age, injury etc) are not able to cope with the 30-50kg weights of the full sized ladies and have to go with a doll which is much smaller in stature ie in the 100-140cm range. They have every right to be able to have the option of choosing a lovely TPE/Silicone companion but by necessity they are forced to go with a smaller, lighter doll.

The challenge that we face is 'how do we weed out those that seek to use a doll as a child-substitute for illegal and immoral activities'. This is not easily answered.

We have to find a careful and balanced approach to this very sensitive issue. Obviously we must do what we can to eliminate any type of illegal and immoral activities. Could there be an option to maybe have slightly more leniency but have a ruling that any younger doll must be made WITHOUT a workable vagina and anus? Would this help those who have legitimate reasons to purchase these younger dolls ie to replace a deceased son/daughter?

One thing that needs to be done is for the manufacturers of the smaller dolls to actually offer a bigger range of 'mature' faces - too many of these smaller petite dolls also have young looking faces - you are just asking for trouble if you try to import a 100cm doll with A cup breasts and a face that looks 10 years old. Why the hell would anybody be so stupid?

We need to make sure that there is no doubt regarding the doll being adult - you can still have a petite doll of 100-130cm that has C cup breasts with a face that looks 20-35 years old - this is obviously just a scaled down version of a real life woman. Perfect example is the PIB spinner dolls made in the USA. Patrick the manufacturer of PIB is obviously of the highest morals and integrity - these dolls are obviously simply scaled down real life woman for the sake of convenience and ease of use. 132cm, beautiful womanly C cup breasts, 19kgs with beautiful faces which look in the 20-28 year range.... simply stunning dolls and ALL WOMAN albeit scaled down to approx 80% of real life proportions.

I would love to have a PIB spinner doll - only 19kgs but with the face and body of a real life woman - perfect lightweight doll - but Aussie Customs seem to hate anything under 140cm so it is a huge risk paying $3500 for something that customs might seize....

The PIB spinner is a perfect example of the need to have a sensible and balanced approach to this very sensitive topic.

One more quick example - the beautifully designed YL128cm doll - ripped chest and large D cup breasts - this is so obviously just a 70-75% scaled down version of a real life woman - nothing dubious or shady about her - obviously a company as highly regarded and a proven industry leader like YL dolls is NEVER going to release a product of dubious nature. This is 100% all woman and based purely on her 128cm height, another huge risk doll to import through Aussie customs.....

On a purely personal level, it all has no relevance to me as I have ZERO interest in petite dolls anyway but for those who have legitmate reasons is there some way to implement this system?


 AIM Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:19 pm 
Ex-Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:15 pm
Posts: 2673
No compassion. We need to establish a definitive guide and standard on what's considered underage, and agree on it through polling and extensive work between the TDF Staff and the community. There needs to be a very open line of communication here, stop hiding in staff only forums... Then, anyone who buys/shows something to be considered below that threshold; instant forum ban, and notify police agencies if the doll is extra kiddie. We must work WITH police to make our community above reproach.

Just my 2 cents, and coming from a very patriotic American who supports the hell outta the 4th amendment. It's just that important these days.

<removed, Rule 2 and 3>


Last edited by Nescio50 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 am, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: Rules of Conduct


 AIM Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:38 pm 
Forum Administrator
Forum Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:27 am
Posts: 8661
Location: The Dollsmith..hanging out with the Motley Crew on the CC of OZ...Landed ashore for a while
To keep this extremely simple. :thumbs_up:

If as a doll owner and member you wish to show or upload an image of your doll, irrespective of manufacturer or model, always ensure the doll is represented as an adult, beyond any reasonable doubt, as the balance of probability arguement for boarderline representations will no longer satisfy the authorities in this day and age.

Representation includes:

the appropriate context of the image (fullbody and head, rahter than just face, and theme the image in an adult context),
the styling of the doll (the dolls make up and wig styling appearence),
the clothing attire of the doll (Adult styled clothing rather than schoolgirl and sailor moon type outfits),
the angle of the dolls image (profile, rear, quater profile, above, below etc),
the dolls accessories (so No children's toys, No child like anime backpacks, No childlike jewellery and definitely no strollers)
in addition to the considerations of the aforementioned proportions.

Remember, TPE and some silicone technology is not quite accurate enough yet to replicate all aging landmarks (such as wrinkles, smile lines, skin folds, blemishes, etc), especially in the smaller scale dolls, and, unless you have an AI doll such as the new RD Harmony or the DS robot, a doll can not change facial expressions, outside of eye adjustments, to assert age perceptions.

Accordingly, ensuring your dolls image does not come under scrutiny for removal, is a simple as following the above recommendations, and if there is even a glimmer of doubt in your mind that the image of the doll is NOT adult enough, do NOT post the image.

Anung



_____________________________
Image



THE UN RAMA'S

Lilith Un Rama - Real Doll She Devil Custom Body 10 (DOLLMILF and TDF Doll Queen)
Natasha - RealDoll Classic - Body 6
Lexi - BoyToy 3 Celestial Star Body 3 Gel butt & boob implants
Lorelei - SANHUI 165R cup my custom elf head 007
Emerald - R13 custom
Ayla - WM dolls - 155cm DD cup model
Jessica Jade - PD - 163cm, Penelope fitness version .
Marilyn Muscles Munroe (Mazzy M) - AS Doll 166cm fitness model
BaBs - PD 158CM Gigantic Boobs doll
Jessie - Teddy Babe Deluxe - Jessica Model
Dannielle - YL Dolls - 128cm Kylie model
Gypsy Kate -WM 140cm D cup head #36
Dommy - WM 65cm Mini silicone doll
Mini Dolls lots!
My designs: PD 160 cm FBB Motoko Kusinagi GITS, She Demon Agony & 150cm Fantasy fitness Pearl
 AIM Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:18 pm 
Doll Elder
Doll Elder

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:57 am
Posts: 2211
Good points SynthetikReality95 - totally agree regarding eliminating all pedos - they are some of the most vile people on the Earth.

I agree that we need a set of rules about what is OK and what's not. I just want to make sure that we try and be sensible about it all. I am probably a bit of an idealist. I generally believe that most people are reasonable and decent but maybe it is impossible to separate between good and bad people....

Definitely think that the body shape and FACE are the 2 most important factors.

There is a fairly big market for smaller lighter dolls for people with completely legitimate reasons (poor health, injury, disability etc) Those damn Asian manufacturers need to stop making dolls with A/B cup tits and stupid young 10-12 year old faces. A think if a manufacturer made a 100cm doll like the popular Riley doll but made her with a range of 10 different MATURE looking faces, she would be a huge seller.

It is the 100-120cm super skinny body with A/B cup titties and young child face that are the problem - what type of sick fuck manufacturers would even make these dolls? If they have legitimate clients (Like mentioned in my longer message above) then simply make them WITHOUT a functioning vagina/anus)

Maybe some type of ruling that if the doll is under 135cm then she must have at least C-cup breasts and the face must be obviously adult-like.

What about a ruling (for those with proper legitimate reasons) that if the doll is under 135cm then she must be made WITHOUT a functioning mouth/vagina/anus? Would this be viable?

Again - I don't know the answers, I just like the idea that someone who is disabled or 60/70 years old or have severe injuries can still get a companion.

I suppose the biggest problem is how do we differentiate between the legitimate person and the sicko pedo freaks.......?

I suppose I am fortunate - even though I have severe neck/shoulder/back pain - I choose to put up with pain cause I simply adore my full sized girls (OR156G OR162i WM165K) but I do feel sorry for those who simply cannot handle these 30-50kg dolls.

PS on a side note of interest - I can recommend TORSO dolls as a possible option to those who can only handle a 20kg doll. At least then you get the full scaled adult torso/arms and the weight is keep down. Then you can choose from a huge range of adult looking faces and will not have any problems with customs or morality/legal issues.... maybe this is a help to those who cannot handle a doll over 25kgs.

BE GONE YOU DIRTY PEDOS!


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: WARNING: To buyers of young looking dolls
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:08 am 
Doll Mentor
Doll Mentor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Posts: 1043
Location: The Potato Patch
If you want to spare any possible slippery slope into any area that can be perceived as young/immoral/pedo/etc... then put a height/cup limit on the dolls allowed to be shown here and be done with it.

As a person who hates intrusion, regulation, and/or censorship it is unfortunate to be in this position, but at the end of the day the integrity of the community and the site are paramount.


 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 28 [ 412 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 28  Next


Who Is Online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Chatting users:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum