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 Post subject: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:02 pm 
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What is the name of the company that manufactures WM dolls?

中山市金三模特道具有限公司

Fogive me if this sounds racist, but all Chinese characters look alike to me. Can you translate that into Engish?

Zhongshan City Jinsan Mannequin Props Co., Ltd.

I suppose you are going to explain how you came up with that translation?

Yes, but you might want to skip the explaination and go to the next question.

Google translate is usable as a Chinese/English dictionary. The challenge is to figure out (1) where the word boundaries are and (2) which words are actually proper names.

The first two characters mean “in mountain,” but since this is a proper name (specifically the name of a city in China), these are rendered phonetically as "Zhongshan".

The next character means “city.”

The next two characters translate as “gold (or golden) three,” but this is another proper name, so we render these characters as “Jinsan.”

The next two characters translate as “model,” but can also mean mannequin. (Chinese does not have a separate word for mannequin.) Since the factory started out manufacturing fiberglass mannequins before switching to dolls, mannequin is probably the intended meaning.

The next two characters mean “props.”

The two characters after than mean “limited,” as in “limited liability corporation.”

The final two characters mean “company” or “corporation.”

In English, convention requires “limited” to come at the end of the name, and be abbreviated as “ltd.” Except for this, I've preserved the word order used in the Chinese name.

Does anybody use your transation?

No. The English language name of the company is commonly given as “Zhongshan Shaxi Jinsan Clothing Props Factory Models.” I believe that this translation initially appeared on www.wmdolls.com. Another version of the name is “Zhongshan Shaxi City Jinsan Garment Mannequin Factory,” which comes from an RoS certificate.

I'm not going to remember those names. Can we simplify things by saying that any company name with Zhongshan and Jinsan in it refers to the doll manufacturer?

Sadly, no. Two of the companies listed on Alibaba are:
Zhongshan Jinshan Mannequin Manufacturer
Zhongshan Jinsan Mannequin Co., Ltd.

Obviously, at most one of these can be the doll manufacturer, and in fact the founding dates for these companies (2010 and 2015, respectively) reveal that neither one of these can be the doll manufacturer, which was founded in 2005.

Does the company have a brand name?

Yes, “金三娃娃” which translates to “Jinsan Doll.” They sometimes write this phonetically as “Jinsanwawa.”

Why is their web site named wmdoll.cn?

At one point, the company used the brand name “完美娃娃” which translates to “perfect doll,” except that the while the first two characters mean “perfect,” they are being used as a proper name and are thus rendered phonetically, giving “Wan Mei Doll.” They abbreviated this to get “WM Doll.”

The company has mostly abandoned this branding in favor of “Jinsan Doll,” but it lives on in the web site name. You will sometimes see the two brand names combined to form “金三完美娃娃” (“Jinsan perfect doll”) on Chinese web sites.

What is their address?

I didn't find a corporate address on wmdoll.cn, but jinsanmodel.cn.china.cn gives the following address: 广东 中山 石岐区 沙溪镇象角村康乐北路75号之5. Google translates this as “5, 75, Kangle North Road, Xiangjiao Village, Shaxi Town, Shiqi District, Zhongshan, Guangdong.” Zhongshan is a city, and Guandong is a Chinese province. I believe that the street address is “75 North Kangle Road” and “5” designates a building within the complex. If you are wondering, “kangle” means “leisure.”

This address confuses me because Shaxi Town is not in the Shiqi District, but Baidu has no trouble locating this address on the map. Jinsan is labeled “金三道具厂” (“Jinsan Props plant”) to the right (and a bit below) the red location marker.

If you move the mouse to the lower right corner, you can select a satellite view of the plant. Google maps also provides a satellite view, even though it's map data for China is messed up.

So much for name and address. Now tell me something useful, like: Can I order a doll directly from the factory?

Only if you live in China. If you live in China, you can go to wmdoll.cn, which in turn links to their Taobao shop. Otherwise, purchase through a vendor.

I thought they sold dolls on wmdolls.com as well?

Short answer: no--wmdolls.com is operated by a reseller.

Long answer: The wmdolls.com web site, and the sister web site wmdollshop.com (which is where wmdolls.com directs you to purchase dolls) are operated anonymously. When an individual or corporation registers a domain name like www.wmdolls.com, the identity of the registrant is recorded in order to allow the registrant to be contacted if necessary, but it is possible to create a web site anonymously by paying a privacy service to register the name for you. Wmdolls.com is registered by DomainsByProxy.com, whose motto is “Your identity is nobody's business but ours.”

Rather than pay a privacy service to register wmdollshop.com, the operator provided false contact information. The address is 123 Apple St., New York, NY 10010, which (according to Google Maps) does not exist. The contact telephone number is for a mobile phone in Miami, Florida. I'm guessing the number was just chosen at random.

So wmdolls.com is kind of a mystery, but everything I've read indicates that it is not operated by Jinsan. The Jinsan site has a link to a Taobao shop where you can buy their dolls, but does not link to wmdolls.com.

But if I did live in China, I could order direct?

Yes, but if you browse the doll listings on wmdoll.cn, you may notice that there are fewer choices than you might expect. There are no 140cm bodies. The popular number 36 head is missing. My understanding is that rights to a great many designs are held by third parties, and Jinsan will only manufacture them for whoever owns the rights.

What else can you tell me about the company?

Not much. It was founded in 2005 as a producer of fiberglass mannequins. Some time around 2010, it switched to producing TPE sex dolls. It is (I believe) the first sex doll manufacturer to use TPE instead of silicone.


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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:11 pm 
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lol, is this their Q&A page?

You a Jinsan employee? Cheers if you real dude, these WM dolls are awesome, love em!


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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Pretty much on the Money. WM Dolls is not A manufacturer persay.

That said Doll Brands are given manufacturer status here as they own the liscence and patent of the dolly's chassis and apperarence under chinese trademark.

WM Dolls is a brand. They are made by Zhongshan Shaxi City Jinsan Garment Mannequin Factory (JINSAN for short). There are a few factories in different regions and industrial areas, and these also make for other TPE doll brands as well.

JINSAN also makes JS dolls, OR Dolls and YL dolls, plus dolls under liscence for many other resellers and brands, as exclusives.

So WM Dolls as a company is the brand of the the doll and as such WM Dolls does not sell other branded models, however JINSAN as the OEM makes all the JINSAN numbers heads that are compatable with these dolls, but some heads are certain reseller exclusive only.

Trust this helps.

Anung



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Wow, that helps a lot. I feel like now I see the light



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:48 pm 
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alc123 wrote:
I thought they sold dolls on wmdolls.com as well?

Short answer: no--wmdolls.com is operated by a reseller.

Long answer: The wmdolls.com web site, and the sister web site wmdollshop.com (which is where wmdolls.com directs you to purchase dolls) are operated anonymously. When an individual or corporation registers a domain name like www.wmdolls.com, the identity of the registrant is recorded in order to allow the registrant to be contacted if necessary, but it is possible to create a web site anonymously by paying a privacy service to register the name for you. Wmdolls.com is registered by DomainsByProxy.com, whose motto is “Your identity is nobody's business but ours.”

Rather than pay a privacy service to register wmdollshop.com, the operator provided false contact information. The address is 123 Apple St., New York, NY 10010, which (according to Google Maps) does not exist. The contact telephone number is for a mobile phone in Miami, Florida. I'm guessing the number was just chosen at random.

So wmdolls.com is kind of a mystery, but everything I've read indicates that it is not operated by Jinsan. The Jinsan site has a link to a Taobao shop where you can buy their dolls, but does not link to wmdolls.com.

The banner at the top of the page links to www.wmdolls.com. You're saying that's just a reseller's website? So did the TDF management get duped somehow?



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:49 pm 
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So here's a million dollar question....
How come TPE dolls are (seemingly) only manufactured in China?
I heard from a silicone manufacturer (here in the US), that TPE is not allowed to be used in the USA for manufacturing.



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Mcupplease wrote:
Wow, that helps a lot. I feel like now I see the light


Yes, it certainly lowers the veil of mystery from this source. I would like to see some posting of this type of info associated with other links to manufacturer's biography wherever possible. It helps to know the history and culture of a company if one conducts business online, so thank you! :glou:

Dollyman25442 wrote:
So here's a million dollar question....
How come TPE dolls are (seemingly) only manufactured in China?
I heard from a silicone manufacturer (here in the US), that TPE is not allowed to be used in the USA for manufacturing.


That is interesting. What about CyberOrgasmic, if it was actually a real company long enough. Didn't they use an elastomer of something similar to TPE?



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:04 pm 
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Dollyman25442 wrote:
So here's a million dollar question....
How come TPE dolls are (seemingly) only manufactured in China?
I heard from a silicone manufacturer (here in the US), that TPE is not allowed to be used in the USA for manufacturing.


Nah, that's bull

FleshLight is TPE and made in Austin Texas.

They could easily start making TPE dolls here, and I wish they would, it would cut the shipping time and be alot more reliable. Wages are higher here, but after cutting out the intl. shipping, the duties/tariffs, etc... it may not come out to be much higher.


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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:30 pm 
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SynthetikReality95 wrote:
Dollyman25442 wrote:
So here's a million dollar question....
How come TPE dolls are (seemingly) only manufactured in China?
I heard from a silicone manufacturer (here in the US), that TPE is not allowed to be used in the USA for manufacturing.


Nah, that's bull

FleshLight is TPE and made in Austin Texas.

They could easily start making TPE dolls here, and I wish they would, it would cut the shipping time and be alot more reliable. Wages are higher here, but after cutting out the intl. shipping, the duties/tariffs, etc... it may not come out to be much higher.


Actually Fleshlites are made from TPA which as I understand it, is much less toxic when heated for injection mold use, and the China manufacturer's don't pay the shipping, the vendor does.
That said, what is the definitive answer? Why are no TPE dolls made in America?



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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:35 pm 
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I hope there's not a regulation against it. Fuck having to rely on China for dolls too much longer... foreign affairs right now are unpredictable at best. I don't see why there would be though, TPE isn't toxic, or at the very least, it's no more toxic than the countless other polymers being produced here.


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 Post subject: Re: Information about the WM Doll manufacturer
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:51 pm 
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SynthetikReality95 wrote:
lol, is this their Q&A page?

You a Jinsan employee? Cheers if you real dude, these WM dolls are awesome, love em!


No, I'm just I guy who knows a bit about finding information on the internet. In fact, I would have said that pulling the name and address of a company off the internet would be easy for me, but Jinsan was a challenge. For example, Google translate not only garbles a lot of Chinese text; it has a habit of omitting bits of the Chinese text completely. When I tried translating the company name into English, Google gave me, “Zhongshan City, the three models with a limited company.” Google translate completely ignored the character meaning “gold.” (Bing translate has the same problem.)

And then there is the misleading stuff, like the English versions of the company name that include the words "clothing" or "garment" when the actual Chinese name contains nothing of the sort, and the Jinsan companies registered on Alibaba that I listed in the original posting. So it took a lot of time to gather not very much information, and having spent that much time, I decided to spend a bit more time to have some fun writing the information up.


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 Post subject: Correction - English translation of company name
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:02 pm 
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I have to correct my answers to the second and third questions of the OP.

The company name translates to Zhongshan City Jinsan Mannequin Co., Ltd..

The difference is in the translation of “模特道具,” which Google translates as “model props.” Baidu Baike, a Chinese alternative to Wikipedia, has a page about “模特道具,” and it turns out to be a page about mannequins. So “模特道具” means (or can mean) mannequin.

One piece of evidence against this interpretation is that Wiktionary does not have an entry for “模特道具,” but does have an entry for “人体模型,” which it defines as meaning “mannequin.” However, I tried a Google image search for "模特道具" and got a whole bunch of pictures of mannequins. Another confirmation is this page, where the text “L7模特道具” is a link to “L7mannequin.com.”

I can guess the logic behind this construct. Wiktionary agrees that the first two characters mean “model,” but clarifies that it more specifically means a “person employed to display clothes, or pose for an artist.” A mannequin displays clothes, but is not an actual person. The second word, translated as [theatrical] prop, could serve as a way of indicating that what we are talking about is not an actual person, but something that looks enough like a person that viewers can tell that it is intended to represent a person.


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