Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
- Dollyman25442
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Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Thanks for stopping by to participate in the poll
Many of you are aware the groundbreaking work Crazy Cajun and I were doing to supply a cost effective, robust, and easily installed modification to full size WM dolls. CC had already developed a hand plate with anchor points which would prevent the fingers from being dis-located, and I followed up with a design for fingers that wouldn't break after repeated use, and had articulated movement (much more realistic than wires).
Sadly we lost our good friend and partner last month. He would have been so thrilled with the final prototype that I was on the verge of installing on Jolene (our test doll). I had promised myself I would get off my duff and do that installation this Friday May 4th, and then...WHAMOO and AH HA!
While the latest prototype was designed for a two plane (up down) movement at the knuckles where the fingers attach to the hand plates, some amount of side to side movement was possible. We had tried many different ways to obtain a four plane movement (up, down, left side, right side) that was fully articulated but it just became complicated, difficult to produce and to fragile for the end user.
But then came the Ah ha moment. I've now discovered a way to make a knuckle joint with a three plane movement (big shout out to Mannequin Fan for having solved this problem!). I've discovered a way to easily and cost effectively have "three plane" movement (left side, right side and down). Three plane movement more closely mimics human finger movement. While we can extend our fingers up, human fingers are not designed to be bent back.
But progress has a price...and thus we've arrived at the reason for the poll.
Two way up down movement (with slight side to side movement) is very robust and would be quite difficult for the end user to damage. Your doll would be able to easily hold a hand gun, glass of wine or banana (wink wink).
Three way movement would also have all these features but would also have a true articulated movement side to side. Example-your doll would be able to "splay" all her fingers apart and hold that pose. Unfortunately some sturdiness is sacrificed for this movement. If you hyper extended this joint backward it would very likely become disjointed. Surgery would not be required to "pop" the joint back into place as it would be achievable by simply pressing both opposite sides of the joint to pop it back in. How many times could your doll endure a dis-jointment? That's a wild card that we don't know and would take quite a bit of testing on a prototype to discover.
So, I put it to you! Yes, you! The end user.
Unlike our Chinese manufactures who could all but give a damn what we as end users want for doll improvement, I (and I KNOW CC were he still with us) are extremely interested in what the community wants.
Two way movement with high robustness or three way movement with the sacrifice of some sturdiness.
Thank you for participating in the poll, your input is valuable!
And while comments are appreciated, their's a bunch of posts in a variety of groups this particular modification. I invite you to make commentary there
D
Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
- grimreefer24601
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Only the joint connected to the palm plate should have three way articulation. Individual digits should only be one way, really. Down.
Really, James gave me the ability to try them all.
I'm glad you're continuing to work on this.
- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Correct. Only the joint connected to the palm plate. And that is the only joint of which I speak for the purposes of this poll. I assumed that was clear, sorry bout that.grimreefer24601 wrote:As far as I understand, three way articulation only exists in one digit of the human hand. Maybe two.
Only the joint connected to the palm plate should have three way articulation. Individual digits should only be one way, really. Down.
Really, James gave me the ability to try them all.
I'm glad you're continuing to work on this.
All the other are two way (un-preventable given the availability of joints. Having a "stop" joint at the digits would be extremely fragile)
Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
One would think that to be true, but in this particular instance, the two way joint (which does have some side to side motion-and I'm speaking of the joint only where the finger connects to the hand plate) is far more robust and able to take a mishap. The three way is a ball joint and can separate if over stressed in any direction. The two way will simply bend (but not break as it's quite flexible)nicvncnt wrote:I vote for 3-way not because of realism or posability but because I think in practice it would be more forgiving of the inevitable side-to-side force that can be applied as the doll is moved around,
Clear as mud?
Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Thanks for your clarification - much appreciated! Perhaps for other reasons the 3-way seems to be winning out at the moment anyway....Dollyman25442 wrote:One would think that to be true, but in this particular instance, the two way joint (which does have some side to side motion-and I'm speaking of the joint only where the finger connects to the hand plate) is far more robust and able to take a mishap. The three way is a ball joint and can separate if over stressed in any direction. The two way will simply bend (but not break as it's quite flexible)nicvncnt wrote:I vote for 3-way not because of realism or posability but because I think in practice it would be more forgiving of the inevitable side-to-side force that can be applied as the doll is moved around,
Clear as mud?
- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
As of today we're split on the choices. 50/50.
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Jelina and Jelena 170cm C slim body twins.
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
I'm thinking that if I'm spending money on this and taking my chances on installing it then I'd rather have the full functionality. It would mainly be for photography for me, and I'd make some protective gloves for my doll to wear when we're sleeping anyway
Very cool to hear that the bones can be snapped back together again if dislocated. But yea it will likely wear on the surrounding TPE as well.
Pictures would indeed be very helpful for a final decision! But whether it be two or three way, it's would still be a lot better than those damn wires.
Rei - WM 140cm D-cup #39 & #53
Nymph - DH168 80cm "Shiori"
Ku - DS Ex Lite 163cm "Kayla"
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- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Well the way the voting is going...I'm thinking to offer both. The three way movement would be some 50 bux extra though, as those ten joints are very very expensive by comparison to the two way joint. For my money it doesn't seem to logical. For less money the end user would have a vastly more stout joint in the two plane movement than the three way movement and the only gain of the three way movement is the ability to "splay" the fingers apart and hold the splayed position.Nord wrote:Three way.
I'm thinking that if I'm spending money on this and taking my chances on installing it then I'd rather have the full functionality. It would mainly be for photography for me, and I'd make some protective gloves for my doll to wear when we're sleeping anyway
Very cool to hear that the bones can be snapped back together again if dislocated. But yea it will likely wear on the surrounding TPE as well.
Pictures would indeed be very helpful for a final decision! But whether it be two or three way, it's would still be a lot better than those damn wires.
But, as I said in the OP, I leave it to the community too decide and thus far it appears as if the community is split which tells me I should offer both.
Once surgeries are done on the prototype doll (Jo), I'll post vid links to my cloud.
Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
I presume the lateral movement would be sufficient with the two way to, say, be able to hold hands with the fingers intertwined, if you get what I mean?
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- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
Yes! You do have that right. With the two way movement, their"s definitely enough lateral movement for her to have her hands intertwinedMuninn wrote:I'm wavering between the two options right now. The two way sounds excellent, and will be soooo much better than the standard WM hands. I might be better to have something more sturdy given my occasional clumsiness and the fact that I do cuddle with Lynne when I sleep at night (bigger risk of finger mishaps!). The three way would be excellent though, though I guess you won't be gaining too much from it.
I presume the lateral movement would be sufficient with the two way to, say, be able to hold hands with the fingers intertwined, if you get what I mean?
As an aside, the three way movement will indeed be a bit more expensive....
Probably something more like 230-250 as the joint is quite a bit more expensive than the other joints. Installation would remain the same (purchased hands +200 +shipping both ways). But I must remind ya'll, this is designed to be a DIY. It's really not very hard to do. Promise!
See CC's surgical vid here-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHqftsp9k8k&t=949s
- Dollyman25442
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Re: Articulated WM finger, hand plate modification poll
I would have thought this would have generated a bit more interest, as I'm sure a lot of WM dolls have broken fingers.