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rubherkitty wrote:There is no problem w/a company making different qualities of a product. Only issue is if they try to pass off a lesser quality item as a high grade.
Fortunately is someone tries to sell me a Chevelle for $1K and it turns out to be a Chevette, I know the difference.
The folks selling the different quality are getting them from those that make the good quality doll yet since they the good quality & lesser maker are selling the lesser doll to one or more re-sellers they then often are telling buyers they make their own dolls, that re-seller then uses the greater quality photos to sell the lesser dolls, and they both the maker & re-seller know what is really true yet nothing is ever done openly at least to stop it or disclose it. What you know & what i or others now know the new buyers do not those new buyers are often also members here or soon to be members. GM has never used a picture of a Chevelle of any yr. to sell a damn Chevette. If they tried they would be sued. There have been those buying after market body panels then trying to sell them as genuine replacement parts. Likewise some insurance companies try to force their policy holders to accept these inferior quality & often ill fitting as well parts for their insurance claim as the aftermarket cost much less.
Boobman wrote:I have said it better in this or other threads about fraud doll sales, If a plant makes both authentic dolls & other dolls for others that they have to know they are being used to cheat buyers then i think they need to be upfront about it & disclose it.
Sure, the Chinese market is not always transparent, the term "fog" has been used. But we have to be careful with rumours and accusations. Most probably TDF is the only doll forum that had their representative visiting most of the production plants. We know the owners and their agents. This is no guarantee, but being listed at TDF is serious, there are obligations.
My doll Vannelope i have provided the solid proof already that was more than a year & a half ago i got her. Yet a TDFapproved manufacturer AF (recent addition) has been selling them until just recently when i saw Doug's exclusive at Passion Dolls still being sold & again i reported & posted my findings from the past matching the circumstances of the recent infringement. https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 9&start=30
Vanima wrote:Very good detective work Mr. Harem. It is nice to see someone working so hard to prove these nasty company's false dolls. I feel so sorry for my sisters that are forced into such misshapen bodies. Hopefully for them when the wheel turns again they are brought back into beautiful bodies created by caring, loving manufacturers like I was blessed with.
On a side note, K and I got an email from an Amazon exec who said they are considering banning doll sales from Amazon. According to him this is due to knowledgeable people like K reporting questionable adds to them explaining how they are counterfeit. They don't want to damage their reputation as a place to shop by having such listings. They are still going to allow inflatables, sleeves, and torso type stuff but ban the high end ones. At least that is what the email said.
That's very comforting to hear that they are finally taking it seriously and considering a ban. I would hate to know the statistics of people who've been
scammed outside of TDF, there's enough horror stories just on here.
Nice work.
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Harem’s argument is the best seller and a primary reason, if shopping for a top end doll to definitely use TDF peeps. As he puts it;
In fact the argument about financial support for TDF is extremely strong. On at least two occasions the failure of a commercial member to pay their subscription has been the canary in the mine indicative of financial troubles and the possibilities of people losing money in dealing with them.
From championing the best of what's available to provision of an environment where manufacturers and vendors want to do the right things TDF provides incentives and opportunities in the best way. And when problems really do go belly up, the mediation service is helpful as well as whatever armtwisting that other members can achieve behind the scenes.
Best wishes
Harem
BUT
In response to alejandromtau who wrote
So... A doll for 200 or 300 dollar at AliExpress would be a fair price for the average quality of this sellers?
Yes.
But know you are not going to get a Mercedes Benz by buying a Hugo. BUT by buying the yugo you get to learn and experiment on the ins and outs of handling the doll and the materials it’s made from. That way when you do invest hundreds more in the better stuff. You’ll be better prepared to take care of her. And if you break or damage the doll at least ya didn't fook up a top ender or waste a lot on an education. And yes it will be an education.
I’d rather toss 200 or 300 down the drain than over 1000. And I’d be the first one to send anyone to a TDF supplier whether maker or vendor if they handled an entry level doll. And that’s how I look at the Ali blah blah blah dolls. Entry level. There’s a reason you don’t put a new driver into a brand new car.
The entry models, are getting dolls into the hands of folks who may not want to invest or can’t at the moment in something better. They aren’t doing a disservice to TDF or the “legits”. The entries will either inspire the folks really interested into going for better or turn off the ones who aren’t really all that into dolls.
Look at how many posts are by FNG’s who had no clue about TDF until they bought some Bargain Basement Betty. But now they’re members and learning; “Hey. The vendors here have much better dolls. I’m going to save up and move up through them”. I for one am one of those. And now I’ve learned and so will take the steps to get better dolls and more than just one. All because my Bargain Basement Betty (Amazon deal) let me experience and realize; "Hey. These dolls are cool and fun".
And if I break my Bargain Betty. Oh well. I’ve wasted a lot more money on more frivolous adventures.
Silicone Lovers wrote:
That's very comforting to hear that they are finally taking it seriously and considering a ban. I would hate to know the statistics of people who've been
scammed outside of TDF, there's enough horror stories just on here.
Nice work.
And the scammers who cheat the unsuspecting give dolls a bad name. How many potential doll lovers never try again w/a good doll.
Going downtown. Gonna see my gal. Gonna sing her a song. I'm gonna show her my ding dong! C&C
My belief is you wanna sell any grade of doll its perfectly fine to do so as long as you do the following when selling them. 1. Do not commit fraud in any way to sell said dolls. 2. Do not lie to make a sale. 3. Disclose who made it (the real plant & manufacturer) 4. Use only actual pics of the product you are selling not pics of other dolls even if you think they are similar. 5. If the doll arrives damaged or not as described or ordered you willfully accept your fault & issue a new doll or full credit to the customer WITH YOU THE MANUFACTURER taking any & all the financial loss not the vendor or buyer.
Good post for those looking to buy their first doll. When I was looking at sites to buy a doll from, I came across sooo many sketchy sites selling for less than the trusted sites listed on these forums. It was too good to be true! So I made my first purchase on 1am. Was pricier of course, but I didn't get scammed!
Leo22 wrote:Good post for those looking to buy their first doll. When I was looking at sites to buy a doll from, I came across sooo many sketchy sites selling for less than the trusted sites listed on these forums. It was too good to be true! So I made my first purchase on 1am. Was pricier of course, but I didn't get scammed!
Silicone Lovers wrote:
That's very comforting to hear that they are finally taking it seriously and considering a ban. I would hate to know the statistics of people who've been
scammed outside of TDF, there are enough horror stories just on here.
Nice work.
And the scammers who cheat the unsuspecting give dolls a bad name. How many potential doll lovers never try again w/a good doll.
Yes - it's such a shame all 'round. I do feel bad for anyone who gets scammed....except I must admit I did have a little chuckle at this guy's delivery a few years back, at least he had a sense of humour about it.
(You need to scroll through a few adverts to see him interacting with it.....)
In my opinion, buying from a store listed on aliexpress that has been open for more than two years and has a feedback rating over 97 percent is a safe bet. I have purchased many things on aliexpress without any problems. And I remember that two of the most reputable and longstanding sellers on TDF, beautifuldolls and 1AM, both had aliexpress stores some years ago.
I also remember that cyborograsmicmatrix (not sure of the spelling), Shrade, and several others had been TDF sellers. They were not reliable and took advantage of a lot of people before they were finally removed.
Several honest Chinese vendors do not speak English well enough to join this site.
