The Doll Forum

More at issue would be the range of the ball-joint movement. In real life, there are no shoulder joints closer to the spine.

Cnyb wrote:In real life, there are no shoulder joints closer to the spine.

There is no bone from arm to spine at all)
When you raise your arm your shoulder goes up too. So we have to simulate clavicle bone movement with that additional joint.

I really don't know, what are you trying to pull??
The ball-joint movement is especially in this case far beyond all comparable designs. For what it is made, it's just perfect. Easy, noiseless movement, much higher durability from a ball-joint than mechanical wear through a hinge.
Alone the rotation behind the back is more then i ever expected.
What you are just saying, makes no sense and is definitely not needed. It raise the costs and brings no functional added value and cause more stress for the material (TPE)
If this is called patented design, who cares?
It's good for the manufacturer - so, great

i guess i'm saying if range of motion is sufficient with ball joint at shoulder then mimicking clavicle isn't necessary

Cnyb wrote:i guess i'm saying if range of motion is sufficient with ball joint at shoulder then mimicking clavicle isn't necessary

Absolutely correct

Dr Dollinger wrote:what are you trying to pull??

What I'm "pulling" here is some improvements in skeleton design which are important in my opinion. While ball joints sounds quite minor for me. Nothing more.

Dr Dollinger wrote:

Cnyb wrote:i guess i'm saying if range of motion is sufficient with ball joint at shoulder then mimicking clavicle isn't necessary

Absolutely correct

Oh, really?
I agree with it will add to cost but not with "it makes no sense".

The stretching of tpe at joints compared to how they were when molded is a different issue, though.

Thank you for the comments and suggestions that help improve the quality of our dolls.
We believe nothing is impossible, it always depends on the cost and the market demand. If cost is not a restriction, I believe there would be no limitation on any design to mimic the real human skeleton. Regarding the clavicle joint, as far as I know, not even those high-end brands selling $7K a doll can achieve this. However, we will try our best to find a cost effective solution to make realistic skeleton.

Btw, ball-joint is not a minor thing. We got back many comments from our customer who have tried both our doll and another hinged-joint doll that they generally agree that ball-joint is far more superior, especially when it comes to the sex purpose. It allows movement with flexible range. Surely this is the first pace of our skeleton re-design, we will make more improvement based on ball-joint mechanism and we believe ball-joint is the ultimate solution of making realistic doll with vast probability. That's why we have to patent it at the very beginning.

Our latest upgrade to our skeleton is the ball-joint neck, this is a new feature and is optional that needs extra cost. Customers can enquire this feature with our authorised sellers


Another upgrade is the head connector, you don't need to screw the head again with this design. Again this is optional with extra cost, you can still stick to the old M16 connector.

Ooooh
I like the look of that

The ball jointed neck looks amazing, and I like the idea of paid upgrades for a better skeleton. Is there a possibility of having upgraded fingers as a possible paid option? I and many others dislike the finger wires that most manufacturers seem to use, and wouldn't mind paying extra for jointed fingers.

sorry that the videos have been reported and removed. I am fixing it. Sorry

Improvements are improvements; even if they may not be everything we're looking for, it's a step in the right direction. Proper hand/finger joints would absolutely be the next big step, and after that a standing model without unsightly/potentially-damaging screws exposed.

At this point, I just wish this manufacturer had bodies along the lines of the WM-170 cm M-cup/YL-160cm/OR 162 cm models. Those are amazing, and all nicely at/above the 160cm height range. Coupled with quieter, more realistically movable skeletons, it'd probably be enough to overlook other typical TPE failings (staining, compression damage).

Mark81, you claim DS dolls can mimic the clavicle/shoulder motion...can you show us? Like the 6YE rep stated, I don't even think high-end stuff like RD2s do that...but it has been awhile since I last had mine (I'll let you know when my Body F arrives if it is or isn't true).

In general, the lack of user videos is always rather distressing. I'm guilty of it myself, but it's really not that hard...I'll totally rectify the problem by providing as many videos as possible of my RD2 F when it arrives (to include a full, as-unbiased-as-possible review).

Looking forward to seeing the continued improvements. A step in the right direction. Well done.

Both Mark81 and Dollinger have valid points.

I don't own a doll YET. I'd think the shoulder movement is important. Try and pose a "shrug", it's impossible without the shoulder movement. I even believe this is the reason dolls look so still in photos even if everything else look lifelike. I've taken extensive figure drawing at Art College, we start from the spine, observe how shoulder tilt and hip tilts to balance the body. Those are key to making a flat 2D figure come alive.

On the other hand, I don't think this new design is minor. Traditional movement would require sort of 2-step movement or 2-axis movement. With all the talks of doll's dead weight and stiff joints, and how it's a workout posing dolls into positions, 2-axis is clumsy. As the joints aren't free and loose. Even if you can move both at the same time. Doing it in one swing would feel more natural and it's easier to change poses.

One thing hadn't been discuss here is the value to take risks to innovate. For argument' sake, let's say this new design is worse than traditional skeleton and weren't discovered during prototyping stages. 6YE would still learn something from it. And their next will be better. Aside from that, once 6YE step up to offer what looks to be almost entirely new skeleton design, other doll makers will have to do something to compete, which speeds up evolution of better dolls. Patents are given precisely to encourage people to take risks to innovate, by rewarding them a time period to monopolize on their effirts. Patents then eventually expire, or complex creations like our cellphone, would cost a million a per cellphone due to royalty to all who contributed.

I had several dolls picked and could not decide. 6YE doesn't have the body type I like and was not on my radar but I might compromise and get a 6YE skeleton, since all my picks, had something I didn't like and some aspects I really really like anyways.