Silicone and other doll making "stuff".

[Jerry]

I filled Tera's arms, first one went great... second one had a problem with a leak between the vinyl inner core and the outside skin. Worked out okay however.

When trying to fill the main body I found a major issue. The thin tubing I was using would not let a large amount of foam flow before it got too thick to pass through. Parts of her body have a hardened foam core now.

I am retooling the injector with a 3/8 opening... and will shoot in another mix. It will either fill her out or blow the seam. It's that or live with hard spots. I'd rather go for perfect at this point.

In the future... I would likely remove the head and shoot the urethane through a 1/2 to 1 inch opening to get the needed volume in the short time I have.

Pictures wouldn't do any good... she looks like a normal doll.

Jerry

[nuzzler]

Thanks Jerry,

I've been toying with the idea of trying something like a microdoll, but had no idea where to start. I plan on taking some time going over the info you've provided to see if it's a realistic endeavor for me. I guess my first obstacle would be to get a good sculpt of what I want, then making a mold. I have no idea if I'll ever even get around to it, as I work about 12 hours a day, but it's good to have the info on hand.
Much appreciated,

Nuzzler

[Poet]

Good info Jerry, very interesting process here. The diameter of the hole to inject seems crucial given the time constraints imposed by the mixture. If i understand correctly, it starts hardening before U can get the full volume into the cavities.......I will hopefully be in a position about a year from now by self study to appreciate better the process as a whole, as it is, I need to look into the resources U provided & educate myself further. Pics would be great tho when U can do that! Poet

[Jerry]

Well... it's some time later and I am still tinkering. I gotta put the silicone in her... that stuff has a limited lifespan. I tested it... still viable. That's good.

Onto other things... I still get asked where to get latex and silicone supplies... I guess people don't read the stickys first.

New info I found...

http://www.fxsupply.com/
Looks good many interesting items. As for the people asking about latex...

Knock your socks off...
http://www.fxsupply.com/materials/latex.html

Now then...
Foam Latex, latex colors, etc...
http://www.fxsupply.com/prosthetics/prosthetic.html

Here... buy a kit and learn...
http://www.fxsupply.com/kits/kits.html#top

Now then... another addendum:
https://selectproducts.com/frames.html

Fiberglass supplies and videos. If you are thinking of making a mold... here is a good source.

Jerry

[Perry]

Hi Jerry,

Any updates on this project??? I'd be interested to know.

Thanks.

[Jerry]

No, not really.

The foam didn't work right because I used too thin a tube and it started to harden before I got it all out. I would need to have the doll's head removed, a PVC ring in the neck, the body supported by a frame, and I would need to mix and pour the whole body cavity at once.

The cost of the materials, the space involved, etc... I just never had the time/money to pull it off. I still have a gallon of foam... not enough for a whole doll... but expensive... don't know what to do with that.

Someday perhaps... but right now other projects pull at my pocketbook... so this idea will simply need to wait.

Jerry

[Perry]

Thanks for your update, Jerry. I know how that goes. Plus that foam stuff is expensive. Good luck on the new ventures.

[Crazyhorse]

Interesting stuff. FXwarehouse is a good supplier I've used them often doing fx and costuming work. For anyone just getting into molding/casting foams and silicones, Smooth-On products might be a better option, they use 1:1 mixing ratios and you get a little more mixing time before full expansion/set-up. good stuff.

Flex Foam-it Foam (various densities)

http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/ind ... 805b9843fb

Platinum cure silicones:

http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/ind ... 805b9843fb

[Crazyhorse]

Crazyhorse...

Thanks for the links. I would also appreciate any links to suppliers of a pre-colored, easy to use silicone elastomer that can be used to produce small objects.

One of the silicones I've used comes in a pretty nice shade of pink, I got mine from Vandykes Taxidermy but I'm sure there are other suppliers for the same product. If you can't find one quite the color you want don't sweat it too much, silicone pigments are fairly cheap and you can mix any color you like by adding them to any silicone mix.

Well, I read through this entire thread and a really strange idea came into my mind and I guess I will let it out now to see if anybody would be interested in an item like this....

Funny you should mention that...

You're not alone in wanting a much smaller than lifesize doll, even one thats not penetratable. I know of two makers that are currently selling them, one is a very beautiful 1 1/2 ft tall japanese elf creation from Artie Tokio http://www.artetokio.com/english/products.html (about $850, but I want one badly). The others come from First androids http://www.andydroid.com/index2_eng.htm (also see their section of this forum). They offer a great range of sizes and appear very well sculpted, but like 1st PC and Mechadoll, some of the problems buyers have had with them make me feel they are less than reputable. Also, for the size I think the smaller first androids products are priced way too high.

But like you, I've had thoughts (and more than just thoughts) of wanting to make my own... in fact, I actually got a pretty good start my own 3 foot tall model several years ago, way before ever hearing of this site or any type of "mini" sex doll. I've got about 16 years experience as a professional artist, including a lot of sculpting with a focus on the human form, and molding/casting for special effects and costuming, so its not that much of a stretch for me.

It got put on indefinate hold due to lack of time, money and support from my wife... but after my recent divorce and an increase in income, I've started gearing up to finish the project in the near future (one of the reasons I'm here), and intend to document the whole thing step by step here on the forum for anyone who might be interested in seeing the process, since it should be very similar to a full size doll. After that I may go on to do another one more on the scale of the artetokio products, we'll see.

There's nothing wrong with the larger dolls (although the full-size RD type are a bit much for me, I prefer slightly smaler versions like many of the japanese models), but even the lightest ones seem cumbersome. I think it would be great in addition to one of those in the bedroom to have a "handy size" realistically shaped masturbation toy that is very easily portable and can sit comfortably "in your lap" while on the computer, or on the couch in front of the tv, etc

I've been planning on making this mainly for myself, I already work more than full time in a field I am very happy with, and have no interest in making a career of sex dolls at this point. But, if there is some interest (which is sounds like there may be) I might also make a small number for sale to recover my costs on materials etc. I will definitely keep you posted, and if you decide to go ahead with your own project I'll be glad to offer whatever advice I can.

[Crazyhorse]

I suppose it could be done, but normally silicone isn't cast into plaster molds, urethane molds are the best bet (with a plaster or fiberglass mother mold), or silicone can be cast into silicone molds with the right release agent. There's really not much easy about it, there's a lot to know about material compatabilities, release agents, vacuum degassing, etc. If you are set on a plaster mold, you will need a very very simple model to make a 2 piece mold, to avoid "undercuts" that will leave your model trapped.

Adding bigger breasts for instance will probably also add undercuts where the sides of the breast curve back into the body and these will trap the model in the mold, unless you make them like cones. Thats why flexible mold materials like urethane are best, you can mold more complex shapes in less parts. Also, if you do use plaster, don't use regular plaster of paris, get some Ultracal or Hydrocal for strength and less porous texture.

For what you are talking about doing, I think a better way to go might be a self skinning foam like the one here http://www.makeupkits.com/Merchant2/mer ... =POLY+FOAM
(That site has a lot of other great stuff too.) It will be soft and flexible foam, but with a harder rubbery skin. But you'll need to be able to secure your mold tightly and make it strong enough not to explode under the pressure. Kind of a tradeoff for buying or building a vacuum chamber for silicone I guess. Either way, there's more to it than you probably think.

Hope this helps get you started, good luck!

[Doll_Luvr]

The result of all of these "alterations" was a group of small naked women that produced a state of EXTREME sextual arousal in me! I found that I wanted to play with them while masturbating and even made short video tapes of them (using the camcorder's macro lens) that I enjoyed watching on tv! In fact, I found the presence of this Lilliputian harem tend to stimulate a 1001 fantasies in my mind and made my orgasms more intense. Apparently, despite their size, I got almost as turned on by them as I would have with a bunch or RG's!

You have the gift of a wonderful imagination.

Erotica comes in all shapes and sizes. I have always found miniature sculptures of women to be arousing. Whether it's anime figures, or Lladro figurines. I was very surprised to discover how sexy I found my Ball Joint Doll to be when she arrived. I've got another one on the way and I've already imagined a fantasy where the small dolls would act as visual enhancements while having sex with my Candy Girl.

So... I can understand exactly what you're talking about.

I already mentioned my idea to my RG and her knee jerk response was "You're SICK! I don't want those in our house!"

Sounds to me like you've got a rough road ahead if you want to explore your interest in dolls. I wish you well with that. I'm sure it can't be easy.

~DL

[Crazyhorse]

The big problem I see in producing these mini-dolls at a "reasonable" cost is the price of the materials that go into them. One supplier I checked out had a flesh colored silicone, but wanted $40 USD per PINT! That's over $300 per gallon. My rough calculations indicate that a 1 foot high doll should use about 1/2 pint of silicone which would cost $20 USD. With labor, etc., it might cost me about $50 USD to make one doll. If so, then I would probably sell it for about $100 USD.

This is one of the reasons I suggested trying the self skinning polyfoam, especially while you're still getting the hang of things. Because it expands so much, a quart of that stuff ($33.00) could probably make at least 5 or 6 12" dolls, and you don't have to vacuum the air bubbles out like silicone. Same stuff they use to make the the japanese foam dolls like Harumi ( http://www.harumi-d.com/harumi-d07/sentaku-e.htm )

Well, what I need to do now is obtain some plaster and try making a few molds to see how that goes. The plaster is a lot cheaper than the silicone and, unless I can successfully make the mold, there is no need to invest in the silicone. First things first.

Good point. And it seems like you don't really get the undercut concept yet... sure the castings will probably be soft enough to pop out no problem... but what about removing your original? Its probably not going to be so soft, and even a small undercut will lock it in there so good you'll have to either destroy the mold or the doll to get it out, if you can get the mold open at all. If you destroy the doll, and the mold doesn't turn out right for whatever reason (very likely the first time), you'll have to make your model all over again. A urethane mold isn't much more difficult, and avoids all those issues. Plus it lasts longer (all plaster molds have a limited number of uses in them.) Something to think about.

[Crazyhorse]

........

[Crazyhorse]

Yes, that is a problem, but there is a simple solution which would still let me use the cheaper plaster mold. All I have to do is make sure that the breast enhancements I add to the doll are soft and flexible. For example, I could could attach soft clay breasts to the doll's chest before submerging it in the wet plaster. Or, maybe I could cast the breasts from silicone filler in a separate mold and glue them to the doll's body prior to emersion in the plaster.

That would probably work, IF the breasts are the only place there are undercuts, I was just using that as a likely example. The original doll may have several of its own, since it was probably cast in a flexible mold itself. Being able to recognize the problem spots takes some practice.

You won't be able to just dunk the model in the plaster, the process involves making a "parting wall" with clay precisely along the widest point of each part of the doll (in this case it will probably already have seams you can follow). The parting wall needs to have some "keys" pressed into it (half-round indentions) so that the pieces will line up later. Then you put the model half embedded in clay into a box that is about 1" larger on all sides, add more clay to make a flat surface, then fill it with plaster in a way that won't trap air bubbles next to the surface of the doll (tricky). Once that dries you remove the whole thing from the box, turn it over and remove the clay, apply vaseline to the plaster as a release then put it back in the box and pour the other side.

This material is shaped and then baked in a conventional oven. It quickly polymerizes and forms small objects that are somewhat pliable. While I would not want to make one of my mini dolls from it, it might be something I would try IF the plaster mold approach does not work out. Of course, I would have to make sure that the PolyClay would cure at an over temperature lower than that at which the plastic doll inside melted!

Yes there are several types of that like sculpey and fimo that are great for certain things... but the problem here is the temp for baking it (275) will definitely melt the doll if its made of vinyl or just about any plastic. Polymer clay is great stuff but its not really suited for molds, especially molds of something that can melt. There are plenty of better materials to use for this.

Actually, I think these mini-dolls are a good starting point for anybody who might be seriously contemplating making a full sized doll. One can learn a lot of basic techniques by working with a small doll first. Then, if that goes well, one can consider going to on to larger editions and, perhaps, even starting a business to sell them.

You're right starting small really is the best way to go. The larger it gets the more complex and expensive and the more factors there are to deal with. Once you start adding skeletons and foam cores etc it can get pretty confusing. There is a whole lot to know, a good book or video on the subject is probably one of the first things you should buy. Hopefully the step-by-step I'll be starting soon will help too, being more doll-specific than any instructional books/videos I know of.

Have fun!

[technoguy]

Crazyhorse wrote:

You won't be able to just dunk the model in the plaster, the process involves making a "parting wall" with clay precisely along the widest point of each part of the doll (in this case it will probably already have seams you can follow). The parting wall needs to have some "keys" pressed into it (half-round indentions) so that the pieces will line up later.

I have been thinking about how to make a simple, yet accurate mold for my mini doll. Here's what I have in mind:

I will mix up a pint of plaster of Paris until it is ready to be scooped up and then place in into a rectangular baking pan that is coated with a non stick material. Before it begins to harden, I will press the front, breast containing side of my mini doll model down into the plaster until it is half submerged and keep it there until the plaster hardens. I will also make sure that the surround surface of the plaster is nice and level. Before the plaster turns rock hard, I will embed several wooden pegs in the plaster so that they point up out of the surface.

Leaving the doll embedded in the now hard plaster, I will then put a light coating of Vasoline on the surface of the plaster AND the projecting wooden pins.

Finally, I will pour in another batch of plaster until the back surface of the doll model is covered to a depth of, say, one inch. I will then allow everything to sit overnight.

The next day, the plaster should be easily removed from the baking pan and the two pieces of the plaster mold easily separated. Hopefully, the doll model will also be easily extracted from the lower half of the plaster while the wooden alignment pins stay firmly embedded in the plaster. Finally, I will carve one or more pouring channels into the two plaster pieces.

Well, it certainly sounds good in theory. Hopefully, it will work out that smoothly in practice!

Once I have the first mold ready, I'll go shopping for my silicone material. I want something that will be as flexible as possible, but also as dry to the touch as possible with, hopefully, NO discernible odor. All materials must be rated as "skin safe" and contain NO pthalate ester plastizer oils.

Hmmm....I wonder if maybe I should consider using flesh colored LATEX instead of silicone? But, I bet Latex is more difficult to work with than silicone polymers.


technoguy