Plastic / Waxy Look of DS Dolls

[Begog]

DP: My friend, I hate to disagree with you, but your comparisons above are matters of opinion. My '72 F100 Ford pickup lasted 25 years and was still running when I sold it. It was unkillable. My '91 Nissan was also unkillable, but was crappy from the start and I hated it. Every little thing that could go wrong, did, but the major stuff was solid. I'll give it credit for that, but that's it. It was butt ugly too. My '06 Chevy is now 9 years old and has been in the shop once. As for Mortal Kombat, it rocks and DOA stands for Dead on Arrival. I have played most MK iterations, and several DOAs. Unless you like cartoony Asian girls and fake Ryus (Yeah, they stole him from Street Fighter), MK dominates. Street Fighter (Capcom) used to be a great game back in the day, but the later iterations all suck. Unless you are an anime fan (which I'm not), those Japanese anime games just aren't going to "do it" for you.
As for this DS doll discussion, I don't have one, and therefore no opinion.

[campion]

No, I get it, and in fact it was the purported connection to 4woods that DS Doll has

I'm not aware of any connexion whatever, other than they are Japanese and that 4Woods sets a benchmark of quality - which DS is proud to attempt to exceed.

Those of us who might be viewed as fanatic about DS do so having experienced them but I for one am no exclusive bigot as far as dolls are concerned, having tried and enjoyed and recommended the very cheapest TPE doll and expressed admiration for 4Woods ladies, RealDoll ladies who take my eye occasionally, Ruby 13 and PIB - and if I express a dislike about anything it's because I have personal experience and good reason to form and express an opinion.

This thread has extended itself and I wonder if there is much usefully more that can be said.

I agree that this thread is tired, or I'm tired of it, or both.

In any case, about the 4woods connection. I remember reading, and I've subsequently searched for and been unable to find, a longish message about some segment of the 4woods staff leaving to form their own company that would manufacture in China. I can't recall if there was talk of a legal tussle or something. If I dreamt this it sure must have been a weird dream, but I can't find the document where I read it and at the time it just seemed kinda distressing to hear that people left 4woods. This may not have been posted on TDF, actually. Does anyone know anything about this? You can PM me if you don't want to post it to TDF.

[Dees Man]

In any case, about the 4woods connection. I remember reading, and I've subsequently searched for and been unable to find, a longish message about some segment of the 4woods staff leaving to form their own company that would manufacture in China. I can't recall if there was talk of a legal tussle or something. If I dreamt this it sure must have been a weird dream, but I can't find the document where I read it and at the time it just seemed kinda distressing to hear that people left 4woods. This may not have been posted on TDF, actually. Does anyone know anything about this? You can PM me if you don't want to post it to TDF.

I remember reading that on TDF when I first joined. You joined TDF about a week or so after me so you probably read the same post I did. I don't know who posted it or if they were someone who would know if it were true or not, but it is something that has always been in the back of my mind. That is the power of making statements here whether true or not.

DM

[deadpringle]

In closing, I want to offer you this as a suggestion: if you've looked over all that DollSweet has to offer, and none of their offerings strikes you, or appeals to, you should consider going with a different manufacturer. More important than anything, a doll should speak to our desires. Frankly, it doesn't sound like DS dolls are "doing it" for you.

Anyway, I hope I don't sound too accusatory or abrasive in this post. I just wanted to help you understand where many (perhaps most) of us are coming from.

No, I get it, and in fact it was the purported connection to 4woods that DS Doll has that made me first look into them and to take them as seriously as I do.

I'm not aware of any direct connection to 4Woods. I think they have similar goals in mass-producing quality silicone dolls though.

You keep trying to sort of run me off with this, "if you don't like these dolls don't buy one" stuff. In fact, the hectoring tone of this post puts me off DS Dolls way more than any skin texture or lack thereof ever have. I guess i need to repeat myself and say that I really like these dolls and am highly likely to buy one (or more). I also think it'd be cool if they had a more realistic skin texture. Seems like an easy fix, but maybe it's rocket science. If no other doll manufacturer featured this, it might not even occur to me to request it. I've owned dolls that had this, though. It was nice. DS should consider it.

I'm kinda out of things to say about all this.

At this point, my main concern isn't your criticism of DS, as much as it initially sounded like you'd be settling for something with which you're not instantly enamored. There's a reason behind this. Please have a look at this thread:
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http://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 22&t=59330

Another member of this forum had a heartbreaking experience, as he was not able to enjoy the DS doll in the way that he wanted to enjoy a doll. I found it very saddening to watch that thread progress, and I felt very badly for lonelyguy, as did others.

I think it's important that a person purchasing a doll buys the doll that is his dream girl. I don't want to see you wind up in the same boat as lonelyguy, but I also don't want others to get the wrong impression about DollSweet's work either. Waiting with high anticipation for a new doll, only to be disappointed in the product isn't something I would wish on anyone here. Perhaps I'm an overly-empathetic fool, but I don't like seeing someone getting heartbroken over getting the doll that isn't right for them. Everyone here deserves to find the doll that makes them happy, especially considering that many of us are doing this to substitute a relationship with an organic woman.

These two factors were the reason behind my responses. I feel like I better understand your original intent. I hope you can better understand mine.

Cheers!

[campion]

In any case, about the 4woods connection. I remember reading, and I've subsequently searched for and been unable to find, a longish message about some segment of the 4woods staff leaving to form their own company that would manufacture in China. I can't recall if there was talk of a legal tussle or something. If I dreamt this it sure must have been a weird dream, but I can't find the document where I read it and at the time it just seemed kinda distressing to hear that people left 4woods. This may not have been posted on TDF, actually. Does anyone know anything about this? You can PM me if you don't want to post it to TDF.

I remember reading that on TDF when I first joined. You joined TDF about a week or so after me so you probably read the same post I did. I don't know who posted it or if they were someone who would know if it were true or not, but it is something that has always been in the back of my mind. That is the power of making statements here whether true or not.

Ah okay, relieved to hear that I didn't dream/hallucinate that! It's somewhat "inside baseball" and academic at this point, assuming it was true. So some people left a company to start a competing company? Happens all the time in every industry but it can obviously get complicated when proprietary trade secrets are involved.

In any case, today we have DS Doll and 4woods is alive and well so more dolls and more choices for everyone.

[deadpringle]

DP: My friend, I hate to disagree with you

No you don't.

but your comparisons above are matters of opinion.

Well, they are and they aren't. The Japanese are known for being very adamant about TQM. Do you know the story? It's actually quite interesting.

Back in the 1970's, a gentleman by the name of Jonathan Demming (IIRC), a consultant (one of my engineering classes attended a presentation about TQM back in 1992, but it's been a while, so I may have lost some of the details), had proposed the idea of TQM to an American car manufacturer (I don't recall which one). As the story was told, he was literally laughed out of the board room. So, he took his idea to Japan. They immediately took to his ideas, and began to implement them. This is why American car manufacturers suffered for so long while the Japanese manufacturers thrived. For example, we were still injection molding hoods, while the Japanese started stamping them out in presses, which resulted in better quality, and faster manufacturing.

I've looked online for an account which mirrors the presentation I attended, but alas, I find nothing but lots of conflicting information. It seems the facts have been muddied with time and politics.

My '72 F100 Ford pickup lasted 25 years and was still running when I sold it. It was unkillable. My '91 Nissan was also unkillable, but was crappy from the start and I hated it. Every little thing that could go wrong, did, but the major stuff was solid. I'll give it credit for that, but that's it. It was butt ugly too. My '06 Chevy is now 9 years old and has been in the shop once.

I've had the inverse of your experience. For me, American automobiles seemed to break at the worst possible time. Any Japanese car I owned was solid as a rock. My wife's Honda CRV is still leagues beyond my Ford Expedition in terms of quality.

As for Mortal Kombat, it rocks and DOA stands for Dead on Arrival. I have played most MK iterations, and several DOAs. Unless you like cartoony Asian girls and fake Ryus (Yeah, they stole him from Street Fighter), MK dominates. Street Fighter (Capcom) used to be a great game back in the day, but the later iterations all suck. Unless you are an anime fan (which I'm not), those Japanese anime games just aren't going to "do it" for you.

What you did there is merely reinforce my original point. DOA caters to an entirely different crowd than MK does, and that was what I was trying to convey.

As for this DS doll discussion, I don't have one, and therefore no opinion.

Fair enough.

[campion]

Another member of this forum had a heartbreaking experience, as he was not able to enjoy the DS doll in the way that he wanted to enjoy a doll. I found it very saddening to watch that thread progress, and I felt very badly for lonelyguy, as did others.

I think it's important that a person purchasing a doll buys the doll that is his dream girl. I don't want to see you wind up in the same boat as lonelyguy, but I also don't want others to get the wrong impression about DollSweet's work either. Waiting with high anticipation for a new doll, only to be disappointed in the product isn't something I would wish on anyone here. Perhaps I'm an overly-empathetic fool, but I don't like seeing someone getting heartbroken over getting the doll that isn't right for them. Everyone here deserves to find the doll that makes them happy, especially considering that many of us are doing this to substitute a relationship with an organic woman.

These two factors were the reason behind my responses. I feel like I better understand your original intent. I hope you can better understand mine.!

Interesting, and no worries. I know a lot of people had issues with early 4woods dolls that had a fairly limited ability to spread their legs. In fact the maximum angles that DS Doll recommends (I believe 120 degrees?) is less than some of the 4woods models. And that particular doll, using the new soft silicone formula, is very shiny. Unpowdered, and not photographed well, but clearly very shiny.

See, I wouldn't sell a doll for that reason, but it would emphasize to me my original point that DS has room to improve here. If you look at photos of the Nataliya RealDoll 2 Body C you can see how a matte finish photographs so much better: http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... t=nataliya Maybe the 2016 DS Dolls will have something like this. Either way, they're still really nice as they are.

[Rick_Deckard]

So some people left a company to start a competing company? Happens all the time in every industry but it can obviously get complicated when proprietary trade secrets are involved.

If this is true, whatever the secrets were, at least for the internal skeleton DS has largely improved on their own. Their skeleton is the best of any dolls currently available, other doll manufacturers should carbon copy it, like right now...

[campion]

So some people left a company to start a competing company? Happens all the time in every industry but it can obviously get complicated when proprietary trade secrets are involved.

If this is true, whatever the secrets were, at least for the internal skeleton DS has largely improved on their own. Their skeleton is the best of any dolls currently available, other doll manufacturers should carbon copy it, like right now...

Yes, I don't think a 4woods doll can do all the things a DS Doll can, particularly things like moveable shoulders. There is, however, a snippet of the 4woods skeleton at the bottom of this page, and it does seem to have a similarity to the construction of the DS skeleton: https://aidoll.4woods.jp/en/detail/legs.html

I don't know. I doubt DS or 4woods would comment on this, unless it was to deny any past or present link between the companies.

[deadpringle]

I feel like I better understand your original intent. I hope you can better understand mine.!

Interesting, and no worries. I know a lot of people had issues with early 4woods dolls that had a fairly limited ability to spread their legs. In fact the maximum angles that DS Doll recommends (I believe 120 degrees?) is less than some of the 4woods models. And that particular doll, using the new soft silicone formula, is very shiny. Unpowdered, and not photographed well, but clearly very shiny.

Yes, when opening a DS doll's legs, one must be careful. If the legs are straight, opening them beyond 120 degrees (if even that) is most likely going to tear the vaginal cavity. However, if the legs are bent, they can be spread fairly easily to accomodate penetration. Harem has an excellent post which has some basic movement instructions. But if you look at my avatar, this is the best way to acheive the missionary position with a DS doll - legs bent (ie: as if she is going to sit), gently spread outward (with pressure on the knees, never on the ankles!), and if necessary, gently bent backwards a little more. You can then bend her at the torso to angle the vagina upwards, or more horizontally, depending upon one's personal preference.

Perhaps I should post a video on this...oO(?)

See, I wouldn't sell a doll for that reason, but it would emphasize to me my original point that DS has room to improve here. If you look at photos of the Nataliya RealDoll 2 Body C you can see how a matte finish photographs so much better: http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... t=nataliya Maybe the 2016 DS Dolls will have something like this. Either way, they're still really nice as they are.

DollSweet's older formula was indeed on the shiny side. Personally, I don't mind it, because I love women who perspire during sex ( ). Plus, I think this look still catered to what the Asian market likes - smooth and shiny, if Anime and Manga are any indication.

The new formula is supposed to have more of a matte-looking surface. If my two new inserts are any indication, the new material is nothing short of heavenly. It's much more elastic, which means the legs might be able to be opened to more wide angles than before. I'm going to be ordering a second doll very soon, once I can make up my damned mind about the body and head I want.

[haremlover]

But if you look at my avatar, this is the best way to acheive the missionary position with a DS doll - legs bent (ie: as if she is going to sit), gently spread outward (with pressure on the knees, never on the ankles!), and if necessary, gently bent backwards a little more. You can then bend her at the torso to angle the vagina upwards, or more horizontally, depending upon one's personal preference.

Yes - legs up like that are the best way and indeed with other dolls too.

As far as your next is concerned, 158+ is really built for - go for no finger wires, no finger nails and loose joints . . .

Best wishes

Harem

[campion]

As far as your next is concerned, 158+ is really built for - go for no finger wires, no finger nails and loose joints . . .

Man I am really on the fence about these kinds of options. Loose joints sound great, if for no other reason than to pull her atop you for girl-on-top, but I've heard people argue that they find the inability of the doll to hold any pose at all to be a hassle during sex. No finger nails or wires makes sense too, but my TPE has nearly no wires (so thin as to be negligible) and I don't like the rubbery, unnatural way her fingers vibrate. This is why we end up with harems, isn't it?

[deadpringle]

But if you look at my avatar, this is the best way to acheive the missionary position with a DS doll - legs bent (ie: as if she is going to sit), gently spread outward (with pressure on the knees, never on the ankles!), and if necessary, gently bent backwards a little more. You can then bend her at the torso to angle the vagina upwards, or more horizontally, depending upon one's personal preference.

Yes - legs up like that are the best way and indeed with other dolls too.

As far as your next is concerned, 158+ is really built for - go for no finger wires, no finger nails and loose joints . . .

Best wishes

Harem

Thanks for that Harem. I love the thicker look of the 158+. This picture of the Penny head on that body makes a little crazy.
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15.jpg (76.17 KiB) Viewed 1242 times

Just looking at this picture makes me want to jump her lovely bones. Unfortunately, I still want them all... ARGH!

[deadpringle]

As far as your next is concerned, 158+ is really built for - go for no finger wires, no finger nails and loose joints . . .

Man I am really on the fence about these kinds of options. Loose joints sound great, if for no other reason than to pull her atop you for girl-on-top, but I've heard people argue that they find the inability of the doll to hold any pose at all to be a hassle during sex. No finger nails or wires makes sense too, but my TPE has nearly no wires (so thin as to be negligible) and I don't like the rubbery, unnatural way her fingers vibrate. This is why we end up with harems, isn't it?

I agree, this option is confusing. I still think I prefer tight joints, because I do like it when May or Issy can hold a sex pose for me without me having to exert effor to keep her in that pose.

[Begog]

DP: My friend, I hate to disagree with you

No you don't.

Okay, you got me there!

but your comparisons above are matters of opinion.

Well, they are and they aren't. The Japanese are known for being very adamant about TQM. Do you know the story? It's actually quite interesting.

Back in the 1970's, a gentleman by the name of Jonathan Demming (IIRC), a consultant (one of my engineering classes attended a presentation about TQM back in 1992, but it's been a while, so I may have lost some of the details), had proposed the idea of TQM to an American car manufacturer (I don't recall which one). As the story was told, he was literally laughed out of the board room. So, he took his idea to Japan. They immediately took to his ideas, and began to implement them. This is why American car manufacturers suffered for so long while the Japanese manufacturers thrived. For example, we were still injection molding hoods, while the Japanese started stamping them out in presses, which resulted in better quality, and faster manufacturing.

I've looked online for an account which mirrors the presentation I attended, but alas, I find nothing but lots of conflicting information. It seems the facts have been muddied with time and politics.

My '72 F100 Ford pickup lasted 25 years and was still running when I sold it. It was unkillable. My '91 Nissan was also unkillable, but was crappy from the start and I hated it. Every little thing that could go wrong, did, but the major stuff was solid. I'll give it credit for that, but that's it. It was butt ugly too. My '06 Chevy is now 9 years old and has been in the shop once.

I've had the inverse of your experience. For me, American automobiles seemed to break at the worst possible time. Any Japanese car I owned was solid as a rock. My wife's Honda CRV is still leagues beyond my Ford Expedition in terms of quality.

American automakers have really stepped up their game in the past 15 or 20 years, partly due to foreign competition. My live-in Asian GF from 98-01 refused to buy an American car. That said, her little Civic was always breaking down, and I found myself working on (and driving) that piece of crap more times than I can count while she usurped my Trans Am. My third wife also had a Honda when she moved in, and the same thing happened. I bought her an Impala, which she loved. Problem solved, except we gave the Honda to her son. We had always parked it in the grass because it leaked oil and trans fluid everywhere. I always knew when he'd been there, from the tell-tale puddle in my driveway. Less than a year later, the engine locked up, because he failed to keep oil in it. Not long ago, one of these new sporty Hondas tried to mess with my 16 year-old Vette. I utterly destroyed him. I doubt he would have challenged a new one. On a side note, as an American, you should BUY American as often as possible. If we all did that, we'd have more jobs around here.

As for Mortal Kombat, it rocks and DOA stands for Dead on Arrival. I have played most MK iterations, and several DOAs. Unless you like cartoony Asian girls and fake Ryus (Yeah, they stole him from Street Fighter), MK dominates. Street Fighter (Capcom) used to be a great game back in the day, but the later iterations all suck. Unless you are an anime fan (which I'm not), those Japanese anime games just aren't going to "do it" for you.

What you did there is merely reinforce my original point. DOA caters to an entirely different crowd than MK does, and that was what I was trying to convey.

In most MK iterations, my MK Scorpion is death incarnate. Haven't played the last couple.

As for this DS doll discussion, I don't have one, and therefore no opinion.

Fair enough.

I try to only comment on stuff I know about.