Doll Robotics

[Wildcard2007]

If i ever see that happen for real, i be STUNNED about her, but i also be worried about the human variation because when androids get to that level of existance? most humans will be out of a job who perform simple tasks. sex has nothing to do with it.

Thats a pretty bleak look at things. I imagine a shift in the global industry away from the service industry and more toward specialized areas of art and design that couldn't be performed by androids. Surely a ton of McDonalds employees and various factory workers would be out of a job. But we would still need humans in the public sector: teachers, politicians, etc. Artists, writers, actors, musicians and basically anyone in entertainment would still have a job. Many areas of research and technology development would only be able to be done by humans (unless you are assuming advanced AI, but thats much further off). This economic shift will make most products *much* cheaper, so there may be less jobs but there would be an abundance of goods that will naturally drop in price. Plus, some company or companies have to make the androids, hire employees, etc. which would be a entirely new industry. Not to mention that the majority of the displaced workers were probably working for peanuts in some sweatshop, so they might be better off anyhow.

I hope your right on that, but who's gonna stop bad people from asking Cherry to trash a ATM for them if she "just follows orders" or blow up a car ?

be carefull what you wish for.

[GrimStrike]

I hope your right on that, but who's gonna stop bad people from asking Cherry to trash a ATM for them if she "just follows orders" or blow up a car ?

Probably looking at the same regulations as on cars and guns. Will that stop some people. Absolutely not. But that's also the same case for today as well. For the MOST part it's under control. Also factor in escalation. People start robbing ATMs with their Cherry and bank's are going to employ their own security bots to stand guard 24/7 outside the ATMs. Hell, you'll probably see banks, security firms, and government employing security bots (much more advanced too) before ATMs and armored cars get hit knowing full good and well people will do it.

As for blowing up a car. It's really not all that too hard to do right now as it is.

The real advantage an android would give is the perpetrator not being at the scene of the crime. However, what kind of DNA evidence or other forensic evidence was left on the android. Forensic technology will just advance along with the crimes. Was the android operated wireless or running in auto mode. How many different methods of computer forensics can you think of that are already used today?

[technoguy]

The idea of using robots for nefarious purposes is almost a century old!

There is a rare silent film from 1921 titled "The Mechanical Man" which tells of a robot created by a scientific genius that has incredible phyiscal strength and is intended to be a benefit to mankind. The robot gets stolen by the female head of criminal gang that intends to use it for a reign of terror on her enemies. The robot commits several murders at her command and the, at the end of the film, it malfunctions and kills her. Sadly, we only have surviving fragments of this rare film which was WAY ahead of its time..


Yes, like an tool (a knife, a club, a gun) a robot could peotentially be used to commit crimes for its master. This why they will have some preprorammed and unhackable program that would prevent them from performing such deeds. They will have to obey Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics". The proramming for this is still decads away.


technoguy

[Matjy Pilulgri]

I don't get it. What's taking them so long?
Why isn't there a gynoid yet?

At the very least they should have been able to make a gynoid that could simply do, what androids can do today.

Has anyone seen the Ballroom Dance Robot? She looks like a a pink plastic minnie mouse. Not a realistic looking gynoid. But she can dance alright.

Or how about ASIMO? ASIMO can serve tea.

Or Reem-B? Reem-B is probably now the best robot on the planet. ASIMO maybe great, but he still has a battery attached to his back, which looks looks like something they really want to get rid of.
Reem-B can walk and play chess.


If any of these robots would look like the dolls here, dress them up and they'd sell like hotcakes to horeca (hotels, restaurants, cafe's etc.).

But somehow, the EveR-3's and DER3's seem to take a looooooong time.


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Oh and by the way

Who knows, maybe by the time gynoids actually arrive, satisfying and LASTING relationships RG's will be far easier to come by.

Who knows?
I know!
I know, I know, I know!
I even know the reason why and am eager to tell.
I was surprised it's a little
tidbit of information that has never seemed to grasp
anyone and realized it's consequences.
And with anyone, I mean the WHOLE INTERNET!
Okay, okay, I found here and there half a dozen sites
that said it
and I remember a program on
discovery channel saying it.
But on the whole it's ignored or they're not seeing the significance
of it all.



There seems to be a really stubborn social myth
that are just as much women or even more women
than there are men on this planet.

It's the thought that the is sex ratio is hovering around exactly 1.000 man for every woman between the ages of 15-50.




Even when statistics show that almost in every country on earth
that there are 5% more men than women on the planet
of age 0-50, the story tells it's roughly the same and only
China and India have missing women where it's 10-15% more men.
It's only because of 120% more women than men over the age of 80 that this fact remains sort of hidden.


So what does 1.05 men for 1 woman mean?
It's only .05,
Well.....

Think of partner choosing like playing musical chairs,
What's the difference between 20 people and 19 chairs
and 20 people and 20 chairs?


Ignorant people blamed this consequence on culture, male hunters mentality or whatever it is you can never grab your hands on because it simply just doesn't exist and is simply another discription of the consequence itself.


Perhaps in the old days this was simply by men choosing younger partners as there were more women down the population pyramid.
Perhaps a coincidence, most women prefer men 1 or 2 years older than them, which coincides with an exact 1 on 1 sex ratio.
Though nowadays the population pyramid to looks like a block.

Anyway, Gynoids arriving means that at the very least the sex ratio will be equal again, but more likely it will even swing with some
men preferring huge harems.

So A simple .05 extra in sex ratio can make a huge difference.


My prediction is that when gynoids arrive, getting and
retaining relationships with a RG will become a peace of cake.
You'll even get lots of unwanted attention due to this swing.
At the very least, prostitutes start roaming hotels and colleges offering not only sex, but cooking and cleaning afterwards too.

It'll be like the internet. All the pretty pictures you've always wanted to see for free, but soon enough you get even more than you've hoped for.
And you've seen what it did to how some women dress and do these days
just trying to get the attention they used to get. Ugh.
Plumber pants?
Pole dancing lessons?

I never imagined women would stoop that low, but they'll stoop
lower when the gynoids arrive.
[/quote]

[Mechwizard]

I read over this thread with interest. I only know enough about computers to use one for design and as a word processor, but it seems to me the biggest hurdle of a real artificial human is the brain and not the mechanics. The issues with joints, synthetic muscle etc have largely been solved.

I have a friend who worked on artificial intelligence as his PhD and is now a researcher at a university doing the same thing. Fifth generation computer I think he called it. A machine that has its own intelligence and is fully self aware. These computers are not programmed but rather "raised" as you would a child. As an intelligent entity there is a whole ethical argument going on as to whether it would be morally right to ever "pull the plug" on one of these things, because you would effectively "kill" an intelligent being. It does my head in every time I think about it.

[snugglesb469]

This has probably been said a million times, but then what's once more? Sure, a great gynoid could probably be produced with today's technology. But then, in order to recoup R&D costs and of course the price of the materials thrown in, you'd have a VERY expensive product in a still highly controversial niche market. It just doesn't seem like a very safe bet to make for would-be developers. I wish I had the kind of money to do so myself, as I think the results would be far better than any forecasts might suggest. The product simply suddenly being a reality may very well shift people's viewpoints toward artifical sex partners. But, it could go either way... Again, a big gamble.

As far as artifical intelligence goes... Wow, its just a big can of ethical worms. I wouldn't want a lovedoll (or any of my possessions) self-aware, but the illusion of it would be very nice.

[mrdudeguyman]

At the moment, a fully solid doll with all things built-in is an unreasonable endeavor.

However, a doll in parts with all thrusters/motion devices removable is the quickest way to the goal. Lots of these innovations have been tried in cheap blowup dolls. I've seen blowups with vaginal thrusters and oral thrusters. Some are reported to work very well. But the idea--at least from what I can see in the U.S.--of having removable parts is something that makers don't like because it kills the mood of realism. To me, these people have no imagination.

If you're worried about removal seams showing, simply cover them up. Netted full body stockings to cover shoulder and thigh seams, shiny belts and chokers to cover waist and neckline seams... This way, all the cosmetic work can go into the main areas: breasts, face/eyes, ass, hair. You could even be cost-conscious and make it a "Slot Doll" where you have a soft non-silcone foam body with slots where you can attach those silicone or silicone-like units as-you-go. And since only the silicone areas will be openly exposed, it would appear to the eye as a fully realistic-looking silicone doll. From there, you could have all sorts of possible upgrades, and as a manufacturer you'd have more accurate control over material costs and certainly a lower defect rate since you'd be making parts rather than full dolls where one mistake can ruin everything and it becomes a loss.

[mytime]

Hi All,

The German doll builder Creator of First Androids is IMO bit ahead of its time, he build skeletons with separate skins and animatronics inside.
With this technique it will be feasonable to incorporate animatronics into dolls and thus to develop android like types.
With current solid pour techniques (Realdoll, Boy Toy Dolls, 1st PC, Japanese dolls any way all solid love dolls I know today except Creators dolls) it is not possible to achive this goal.
I still remember a post written by Thomas when he worked at Abyss where he stated that animatronics were only possible with a doll with a removable skin.
Any way when I see that there are at the moment cars being developed that can find their way by itself to bring injuried soldiers through dangerous places (enemy) back to the field hospital then I think the android doll is not miles away.
There is further a demand for this kinda dolls in the care sector, there are more people needed in care (e.g. for old people) than is economically feasonable.
I think a part of this will be solved in future with androids.
And this androids will be developed further into simple Artificial comagnons, its perhaps only a matter of time, it may take some decades, but I think they will come, and Levi thinks the same with me (I came only little bit sooner to the conclusion than proffessor Levy, only professor Levy earns the tenthousands euro's money with it which I lack.)

Mytime & Helen

[mrdudeguyman]

Hi All,

The German doll builder Creator of First Androids is IMO bit ahead of its time, he build skeletons with separate skins and animatronics inside.
With this technique it will be feasonable to incorporate animatronics into dolls and thus to develop android like types.
With current solid pour techniques (Realdoll, Boy Toy Dolls, 1st PC, Japanese dolls any way all solid love dolls I know today except Creators dolls) it is not possible to achive this goal.
I still remember a post written by Thomas when he worked at Abyss where he stated that animatronics were only possible with a doll with a removable skin.
Any way when I see that there are at the moment cars being developed that can find their way by itself to bring injuried soldiers through dangerous places (enemy) back to the field hospital then I think the android doll is not miles away.
There is further a demand for this kinda dolls in the care sector, there are more people needed in care (e.g. for old people) than is economically feasonable.
I think a part of this will be solved in future with androids.
And this androids will be developed further into simple Artificial comagnons, its perhaps only a matter of time, it may take some decades, but I think they will come, and Levi thinks the same with me (I came only little bit sooner to the conclusion than proffessor Levy, only professor Levy earns the tenthousands euro's money with it which I lack.)

Mytime & Helen

I think the First Android guy has some great ideas, but economics will prevent this from taking off right now. With so much of his R&D time/costs just going into the doll being fully silicone--and I imagine high grade--it cripples the speed of how quickly this can move forward.

I just believe most owners would be satisfied enough if the doll had a silicone butt/vag, breasts, a realistic face and a good hair getup, and the rest of the body acting like a soft (foam?) but non-silicone control deck for all of the attachments (butt, breasts, head, vagina). Covering up the imperfections/seams that would kill the "mood" may not sound cool in theory, but in practice when the mind is fooled it translates very well. As long as the shape of the body is anatomically correct the realism factor will be there.

My idea would be ideal for mass production. I wonder why no adult company has tried that yet? Low-cost foam body with parts you can add as you go? Sounds to me like the potential for recurring sales of new pieces and upgrades would be off the charts.

Maybe I should prototype this?

[Widgetmite]

Go see http://www.andydroid.com/accueil_eng.htm Download some of the videos there and you will see that some very interesting work is already being done. In fact you can already purchase dolls from here with animatronic movement! The motions are simple and repetitive, but they look quite realistic. We do not have to wait for investment to be made, it's happening already.

Check out the Mechadoll web site the http://www.mechadoll.com/ which reads on it's first page; "Mechadoll, founded in 2003, has been dedicated to developing technology in the field of robotics. We developed a unique process with the intentions of using it to cover a fully-functional robot." They currently sell dolls that look almost as good as 'Realdolls' and obviously intend to use them as the 'flesh' for animatronic robots.

I expect the day will come when I will be purchasing an android, likely a good bit more expensive than what 'Real Dolls' currently cost. Bear with me while I elaborate on where I see things going and what I most definitely am interested in purchasing.

Firstly, I would call your attention to the following two links. The first is a long article about the current state of progress on exoskeleton robotics, the second is a photo of an exoskeleton that went on sale in November, 2007 for the price of $13,000. that is able to totally support a 45 kilogram weight, walk and carry.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct05/1901
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct05/1974/hal

Now I am not suggesting that you strap a realdoll into an exoskeleton or even that the exoskeleton technology has developed to the point where it is immediately applicable to realdolls. However it is clear from this article (and other news of late) that likely by the next generation of exoskeletons (three years) it will be possible to create not an exoskeleton but an endoskeleton fully compatible with a real doll type body. It will very soon be possible to create a realdoll that can walk about and otherwise move!

Current work on exoskeletons is mostly focused on weight bearing assistance and so fine degrees of motor control are not yet built into the actuator systems. However work being done mostly with carbon nanotube fibers and sheets to create artificial muscles to replace mechanical actuators would seem to be leading quite soon to being able to build an animatronic skeleton with the full range of human motion. When these muscle analog actuators are finally included in exoskeleton technology (possibly by the next generation) it will be possible to create a realdoll whose movements are indistinguishable from those of a real human.

Computer gaming animation has done all the necessary work to include with such a fully animated realdoll what is called 'animation blending' meaning that such a doll need not have mechanical 'start stop' ranges of motions that would make it look robotic. Rather such an animated realdoll would be able to be essentially in the same sort of constant micro motion as a real human is, with the result that it would appear to be completely alive.

If we marry this technology with the sort of work being done with the likes of the Aibo robotic dog, which includes visual systems, speech recognition and trainability, we start to have a realdoll that becomes a true companion, a robotic 'pet' that does a hell of a lot more than roll over and play dead.

A realdoll currently costs $7,000. Adding the exoskeleton cost to that (using the one pictured in the above link as reference) brings it to $20,000.. Factoring in the additional costs of interfacing the two technologies likely brings the cost of production models of animatronic realdolls to around $30,000.. Now that may seem steep to some people, but they need to think it through. Would not many of us be prepared to pay $30,000. for a french maid that did everything we might fantasize for her to do, including the dishes? We are not far off. Your future I expect is to be very rich.

A great set of resources for further exploration is http://www.smartdigitalrobotics.com/