I'm trying to create a new technique. A way of creating a figure, something I can add to, change, repair, whatever. Most artists scupt a face and worry about the structure underneath later. I'm working the other way trying to figure out what structures I need under the skin to create the look I'm after.
The best part about the process so far is that after I've got one good mold (remember I've only really "sculpted" a nose and mouth) I've got an almost infinite number of faces that can be made from it.
I hopeful that the body will go the same way. One mold used to create different bodies. Different looks created not by sculpting the whole thing out of clay and casting, but by changing whats under the skin.
I think, in the end, I'll end up with a more realistic figure. Maybe not with Becky, but she is the start.
I doubt this will ever be a doll that is for sale but if I can get the skin process perfected then there might be something there.
Becky in progress
Becky has a body.
Basically what you see here is a three-foot tall halloween skeleton with about 1 cup of silicone for the skin. I haven't finished the arms or legs yet and she still needs an ass but I'm figuring a whole body for about the price of a sample kit of silicone. ( I'm personally WAY over that now with all the trial and error LOL)
I'm really learning a lot from this little project. (Like how understanding my wife is!
) The silicone skin pour needs to be a little thicker next time and a little darker. Pouring the face and body skin at the same time is a must to match color. Even at this thickness the stuff is next to impossible to tear (around 1mm give or take) but it is a little too translucent.
It has been surprisingly difficult to get her boobs the right weight, something to do with the scale I think. I need them to be heavier so they sag just the right amount.
I think I've got the texture about right, I have a few bubbles in the skin that I'm going to try my patching technique on to see if I can make them "vanish"
Becky's animatronics in her head are almost done, I got a fair deal on some eyes off of ebay and picked up 6 micro servos at a hobby shop on sale all the rest I had around my workbench from various projects.
Sorry for the rambling, its late here and I'm pretty excited about being able to post this update.
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timetraveler1
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looks great !
you have a right to be excited from what i see thats some pretty good work their looking very good please keep us posted on progress and with picture more pictures !!
Thanks for the encouragement Timetraveler. I told my wife that as a working artist for over twenty years that this project has me feeling the most creative and excited ever. Slightly insane, chaotic, passioned, driven, etc.
On a side note about the experiments leading to this.
Silicone is a liquid and if you pour it over a foam or textile it will sink in and skin over the top creating a mechanical lock to the substance underneath. Loses its stretchiness but I had been thinking about airbrushing it onto a sculpted foam understructure.
The technique I've worked out so far is more like making the silicone the textile (molded in one flat sheet) and then wrapping the structure.
On a side note about the experiments leading to this.
Silicone is a liquid and if you pour it over a foam or textile it will sink in and skin over the top creating a mechanical lock to the substance underneath. Loses its stretchiness but I had been thinking about airbrushing it onto a sculpted foam understructure.
The technique I've worked out so far is more like making the silicone the textile (molded in one flat sheet) and then wrapping the structure.
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timetraveler1
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over my head
some of what you discribe is over my head , photo's (unless your protecting and creative secrets is better for me with descriptions !! i think i asked you this before is this a personal doll or something yo are going to make and sell ?? 
have you seen in the open forum where i posted my lates angela smith artificial inttelligence responses from the french madem doll ??
thats more my cup of tea on doing things
have you seen in the open forum where i posted my lates angela smith artificial inttelligence responses from the french madem doll ??
thats more my cup of tea on doing things
Wow thanks for the kind words. Abyss huh? 
They have some very talented artists there Im sure.
Timetraveler, none of this is above your head I promise. I am being a little secretive about the skin since it isnt a straight silicone mix, but the techniques and the animatronics are right up your alley, adding a servo and a simple electronics board would have your doll's mouth moving to the a.i. speech synth your working on.
As for selling dolls, I don't know what the future holds, I've been thinking that a "kit" of sorts might be possible but Im probably just daydreaming.
Some of the custom creations I've seen in the Inventors corner would benefit from a simple way of covering them with a skin-like silicone that wouldnt require the Inventor to mix up their own silicone and deal with the associated mess and cost.
Uniform thickness is also a consideration. When pouring into a conventional mold with associated skeleton can sometimes leave areas of the silicone too thin. The conventional molds are also HUGE and mine can be rolled up and stored in a tube. LOL.
For that matter, (now Im reaching) custom prosthetic covering might be the way to go. I've been noodling about a way to cover the hands and feet so they look and move in a realistic manner.
But all this means nothing if I can't work out the little problems and get Becky perfect.
I'm trying to get the right look to the skin even as she is moved (or moves on her own) You know what I mean? The right folds to show up as she sits up or turns, stretches, bounces
Maybe I'll make a website for her soon. ( I do have more photos, but some of them are seriously similar to autopsy photos)
They have some very talented artists there Im sure. Timetraveler, none of this is above your head I promise. I am being a little secretive about the skin since it isnt a straight silicone mix, but the techniques and the animatronics are right up your alley, adding a servo and a simple electronics board would have your doll's mouth moving to the a.i. speech synth your working on.
As for selling dolls, I don't know what the future holds, I've been thinking that a "kit" of sorts might be possible but Im probably just daydreaming.
Some of the custom creations I've seen in the Inventors corner would benefit from a simple way of covering them with a skin-like silicone that wouldnt require the Inventor to mix up their own silicone and deal with the associated mess and cost.
Uniform thickness is also a consideration. When pouring into a conventional mold with associated skeleton can sometimes leave areas of the silicone too thin. The conventional molds are also HUGE and mine can be rolled up and stored in a tube. LOL.
For that matter, (now Im reaching) custom prosthetic covering might be the way to go. I've been noodling about a way to cover the hands and feet so they look and move in a realistic manner.
But all this means nothing if I can't work out the little problems and get Becky perfect.
I'm trying to get the right look to the skin even as she is moved (or moves on her own) You know what I mean? The right folds to show up as she sits up or turns, stretches, bounces
Maybe I'll make a website for her soon. ( I do have more photos, but some of them are seriously similar to autopsy photos)
Hi Tbuilder,
I'm interested in your techniques. I like the bones out approach. I especially like the idea of being able to redesign and reskin a frame. I can imagine future product lines of preformed frames, pads, and skins for the home builder. I was going to suggest this today when I read you were day dreaming of doing it already.
I'm a little confused about just what you're doing, but it looks like your making a lot of progress. I was going to ask you a lot of questions about your technique but if it's a secret, what's the point? It looks like you could use some gel in those boobs. Could you attach anchors to the ribs for bags of gel?
You're going to animate the doll's head to some degree? Wow combining artistic and technical skills, I'm impressed. I look forward to reading what ever your time, and secrecy allow you to write about this project. What I think you are doing has given me an idea for covering hands and feet. I'll PM you the idea so as not to inadvertently reveal your secrets.
I'm interested in your techniques. I like the bones out approach. I especially like the idea of being able to redesign and reskin a frame. I can imagine future product lines of preformed frames, pads, and skins for the home builder. I was going to suggest this today when I read you were day dreaming of doing it already.
I'm a little confused about just what you're doing, but it looks like your making a lot of progress. I was going to ask you a lot of questions about your technique but if it's a secret, what's the point? It looks like you could use some gel in those boobs. Could you attach anchors to the ribs for bags of gel?
You're going to animate the doll's head to some degree? Wow combining artistic and technical skills, I'm impressed. I look forward to reading what ever your time, and secrecy allow you to write about this project. What I think you are doing has given me an idea for covering hands and feet. I'll PM you the idea so as not to inadvertently reveal your secrets.
Data Control and IBM, Science is mankind's brother, and I realize that no one's wise, to my plastic fantastic Lover. From the song, Plastic Fantastic Lover by Jefferson Airplane 1968
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timetraveler1
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hello tbuilder , you have my imagination and curisosity going now .
as i said i am very impressed with your doll body and the sagging breast is something i have talked about doll makers should do to make breast more realistic . also i have talked about animated doll heads and eyes actually talked about using a childs toy that has animated mouth and eyes . but something that lipsinks and is animated is better i could or anyone could use the animated santa claus , etc. that wal mart etc. sells .
we had a discussion on the hal forum (a.i) and found we could plug in the jack into our p.c.'s and with our virtual hal a.i. (haptec) characters . the santa claus would say what ever the a.i. character was saying and lip sync it too.
this brought up some interesting possiblity's i evn discussed taking the frame work etc. out and placing it in a light weight french madem skin with some extra stuffing inside and you would have a moving animated lip syncing a.i. being . this is something i still may do sometime in the future . but as for now our santa is still kickin and we need old st. nick on the holidays !!
p.s. by the way i would still be happy to even see your autopsy type photo's if it doesn't give away anything .
i truly do have an interest in what your doing . your a fellow inventer .
if you ever want to talk in private pm me anytime .
as far as selling your project in a kit form i would have to say it depends on what all is involved "can the average joe do it ?" unless the electronics can't be put in later i would say make the body sell it as a doll body then sell the animatronics seperate . and or sell the whole doll with animatronics included in the doll for a higher price .
just my suggestion .
as i said i am very impressed with your doll body and the sagging breast is something i have talked about doll makers should do to make breast more realistic . also i have talked about animated doll heads and eyes actually talked about using a childs toy that has animated mouth and eyes . but something that lipsinks and is animated is better i could or anyone could use the animated santa claus , etc. that wal mart etc. sells .
we had a discussion on the hal forum (a.i) and found we could plug in the jack into our p.c.'s and with our virtual hal a.i. (haptec) characters . the santa claus would say what ever the a.i. character was saying and lip sync it too.
this brought up some interesting possiblity's i evn discussed taking the frame work etc. out and placing it in a light weight french madem skin with some extra stuffing inside and you would have a moving animated lip syncing a.i. being . this is something i still may do sometime in the future . but as for now our santa is still kickin and we need old st. nick on the holidays !!
p.s. by the way i would still be happy to even see your autopsy type photo's if it doesn't give away anything .
i truly do have an interest in what your doing . your a fellow inventer .
if you ever want to talk in private pm me anytime .
as far as selling your project in a kit form i would have to say it depends on what all is involved "can the average joe do it ?" unless the electronics can't be put in later i would say make the body sell it as a doll body then sell the animatronics seperate . and or sell the whole doll with animatronics included in the doll for a higher price .
just my suggestion .
Timetraveler.
http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/Navi ... nTech.html
Halloween is all about skulls and skeletons. I took my first simple circuit design from an animated skull. This site has several easy to build circuits that should get your creative juices flowing. Hacking an existing animatronic usually involves some kind of compromise, building from scratch puts you back in charge of the design.
There are other ways of getting the jaws-a-flappin, but they usually involve programming an on-board computer or servo controller.
See http://www.bpesolutions.com
For inspiration see http://www.hansonrobotics.com or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4OU5BQ39o
Video of a prop from Steven King's Rose Red.
I might be off on this but I think the difficulty the manufacturers have with sagging breasts has to do with "undercuts" in the molds. Could also be the weight of the breast pulling the silicone skin apart?
I managed to get Becky's breasts to sag but then they didn't "feel" right so I'm back to the drawing board and checking out breast augmentation sites for surgery photos
It's a tough job but someones gotta do it.
I tried attaching bags of a gel type liquid to the chest and it works but I'm still not satisfied. When you turn a woman on her head her breasts "follow gravity" I'll get something I like soon, some combination of techniques I think.
This weekend I've been rewiring servos to power her eyes and smile. Those microservos are tricky to solder without burning them up.
As far as "autopsy" photos go, I don't think there are any secrets that would be revealed. But I don't think I want to post them in the dollforum. I'll try and put them up on flickr or I might go ahead and start a website doll-making blog?
More photos coming soon.
http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/Navi ... nTech.html
Halloween is all about skulls and skeletons. I took my first simple circuit design from an animated skull. This site has several easy to build circuits that should get your creative juices flowing. Hacking an existing animatronic usually involves some kind of compromise, building from scratch puts you back in charge of the design.
There are other ways of getting the jaws-a-flappin, but they usually involve programming an on-board computer or servo controller.
See http://www.bpesolutions.com
For inspiration see http://www.hansonrobotics.com or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4OU5BQ39o
Video of a prop from Steven King's Rose Red.
I might be off on this but I think the difficulty the manufacturers have with sagging breasts has to do with "undercuts" in the molds. Could also be the weight of the breast pulling the silicone skin apart?
I managed to get Becky's breasts to sag but then they didn't "feel" right so I'm back to the drawing board and checking out breast augmentation sites for surgery photos
It's a tough job but someones gotta do it.I tried attaching bags of a gel type liquid to the chest and it works but I'm still not satisfied. When you turn a woman on her head her breasts "follow gravity" I'll get something I like soon, some combination of techniques I think.
This weekend I've been rewiring servos to power her eyes and smile. Those microservos are tricky to solder without burning them up.
As far as "autopsy" photos go, I don't think there are any secrets that would be revealed. But I don't think I want to post them in the dollforum. I'll try and put them up on flickr or I might go ahead and start a website doll-making blog?
More photos coming soon.
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timetraveler1
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thanks
thanks tbuilder for writing , ever think of going the animated santa (full size ) like what i was talking about ? its also ac / dc capable . i'll be watching for your pics and any progress !!take care .
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timetraveler1
- Doll Visionary
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me again , hey tbuilder you should seriously give thought to the animated sant i am talking about as it is as some on another forum said the cheapest animated lip sinking voice activated product (full size around ) after seeing some prices on some of the halloween products the santa for a round $70>)) or less is a good buy .
Becky update
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/15794644@N08/2193023700/" title="simple hand by tbuilder, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/219 ... c72b6e.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="simple hand" /></a>
I've been busy during the holidays, just now getting back to "normal"
Anyway I'm noodling with Becky's hand , different designs etc. I found these really small hinges in a hobby shop and I think they are pretty slick. Clearly the palm needs work and the thumb isn't fully realized yet.
But at least I haven't abandoned the project
I've been busy during the holidays, just now getting back to "normal"
Anyway I'm noodling with Becky's hand , different designs etc. I found these really small hinges in a hobby shop and I think they are pretty slick. Clearly the palm needs work and the thumb isn't fully realized yet.
But at least I haven't abandoned the project
This is a really nifty project. I'm very much enjoying watching your progress.
Regarding soldering the micro servos - if you don't already own a temperature-controlled soldering iron, I suggest you consider buying one. Weller makes nice soldering stations for about $100. It's seriously the best money I've spent on my hobby - they make soldering much easier and more pleasant. With a temp-controlled iron, it's vastly easier to solder to small, fragile things without damaging them.
I'm just getting started with silicone myself and I'm sure I could learn a lot from you. If you've a mind, check out my "Embedding Electronics in Silicone" thread in this forum - maybe you could offer some advice.
Keep up the good work and please keep posting pics!
Regarding soldering the micro servos - if you don't already own a temperature-controlled soldering iron, I suggest you consider buying one. Weller makes nice soldering stations for about $100. It's seriously the best money I've spent on my hobby - they make soldering much easier and more pleasant. With a temp-controlled iron, it's vastly easier to solder to small, fragile things without damaging them.
I'm just getting started with silicone myself and I'm sure I could learn a lot from you. If you've a mind, check out my "Embedding Electronics in Silicone" thread in this forum - maybe you could offer some advice.
Keep up the good work and please keep posting pics!
Re: your doll
Just a bystander's point of view. The process seems like very laborious and requires countless hours of precious work and internal modeling.timetraveler1 wrote:is this a doll your fixing for yourself ?? or a prototype for a doll that your going to mass produce ?? if so are you going to have the skeletons and fat tissue inside all of them . ??
A commercially produced doll with this technique would be very very very expensive because of the huge number or working hours needed.
(So I understand also from the techniques the book of Lisa Lichtenfels (Figurs in Fabric), sort of related.
A pristine copy of the book appeared here about a week ago and since then I've been skimming through that one in awe. The really funny thing
is how her art would match perfectely with the interests of a serious hobbyist of realistic looking love dolls. Thanks for Tbuilders link I would not have ever found this otherwise! This is great book for ideas. I'm just in the verge of falling into this kind of thng too..
Especially the modeling of the structure under the skin is interesting.
It would not cheap to reproduce the way muscles behave but clearly possibe. Maybe the assembly could be even automated.
Another very interesting thing is the skin itself. While sewing details
into fabric is laborious the fabric can easily take details that are in
other materials underneath. For example silicone can be molded into
detailed shape. Fabric can be pasted over the shape. Then fabric can manipulated, then maybe coated again. What results is both more detailed and more durable than either of these materials alone. That would be great.
Damn, I love this. I also really hope to see more news about Becky. (And maybe others.. Tbuilder is there more to see?? ) Any progress?
