WM- Full Skeletal Overhaul (Hopefully)

[shigowa68]

Try Permatex, J-B weld, or Zap. In a pinch you could use nail polish, but this is a very weak bond.
FYI, I didn`t use threadlock on her wrists, just the serrated washers and a nyloc, which held up fine.
In general, the biggest cause of nuts and bolts coming loose is vibration. As long as the nut and bolt don`t turn in relation to the clevis when you manipulate the joint you should be ok. In this skeleton, in the twisting joints and the inner hip joints the nuts and bolts do move. Very little we can do with the twists and the inner hip is proving to be the biggest headache which is why I went with red threadlock.

[Michaelangelo]

Try Permatex, J-B weld, or Zap. In a pinch you could use nail polish, but this is a very weak bond.
FYI, I didn`t use threadlock on her wrists, just the serrated washers and a nyloc, which held up fine.
In general, the biggest cause of nuts and bolts coming loose is vibration. As long as the nut and bolt don`t turn in relation to the clevis when you manipulate the joint you should be ok. In this skeleton, in the twisting joints and the inner hip joints the nuts and bolts do move. Very little we can do with the twists and the inner hip is proving to be the biggest headache which is why I went with red threadlock.

Thanks so much for this! Can confirm JB-Weld is a reasonable price here.

I’m happy with wrist tension off the bat - she can easily hold a phone in her open hand with fingers curled around it - so probably will leave it a few weeks and see how she gets on with being posed holding small objects. If it starts to weaken I’ll either add a spot of the JB weld or add serrated washers. I ran into a problem with those, however, because my bolt was not long enough, even using internal serrated washers (using 16 mm bolt) and I don’t want her slim wrist to be bulked out too much on either side by a longer bolt, say 18 mm or so. Once I’ve done her left hand I’ll make a final decision on this.

Thanks again and all the best with your all-in overhaul!

[shigowa68]

Try Permatex, J-B weld, or Zap. In a pinch you could use nail polish, but this is a very weak bond.
FYI, I didn`t use threadlock on her wrists, just the serrated washers and a nyloc, which held up fine.
In general, the biggest cause of nuts and bolts coming loose is vibration. As long as the nut and bolt don`t turn in relation to the clevis when you manipulate the joint you should be ok. In this skeleton, in the twisting joints and the inner hip joints the nuts and bolts do move. Very little we can do with the twists and the inner hip is proving to be the biggest headache which is why I went with red threadlock.

Thanks so much for this! Can confirm JB-Weld is a reasonable price here.

I’m happy with wrist tension off the bat - she can easily hold a phone in her open hand with fingers curled around it - so probably will leave it a few weeks and see how she gets on with being posed holding small objects. If it starts to weaken I’ll either add a spot of the JB weld or add serrated washers. I ran into a problem with those, however, because my bolt was not long enough, even using internal serrated washers (using 16 mm bolt) and I don’t want her slim wrist to be bulked out too much on either side by a longer bolt, say 18 mm or so. Once I’ve done her left hand I’ll make a final decision on this.

Thanks again and all the best with your all-in overhaul!

Agree , adding washers and nylocs all add bulk, something I settled to live with. They also necessitate a longer bolt.
I didn`t use serrated washers in the foot attachment and so far these have held up fine, so may not be absolutely necessary. As the hands were my first surgical repair I took more of a belts and braces approach.
I don`t recommend using serrated washer inside the clevis as their whole reason for being is to stop things rotating.
When I replaced the hands I used bolts that I had to hand at the time, these will be replaced with button head bolts.
All the bolts I am using are deliberately too long and cut to length. Nylocs don`t like heat, so keep some aside for this purpose.

[seagull]

Serrated washers are definitely for preventing nut rotation, they provide a mechanical lock between the nut face and the surface

[shigowa68]

It`s been a while, so a quick update.

We`ll ignore the twist joints as there is nowt` we can do with these without a major redesign ( I only have one that could do with tightening up, and have had a thought here, but still have to test it out).

All other joints stripped down, remains of the welds ground away, eyes and inside faces of the clevis`s cleaned up. The corrosion in the waist area was nowhere near as bad as first appeared, really was just a couple of spots of surface staining.
Rebuilt the joints as per original but with new hardware. Nuts replaced with Nylocs. New `double smooth` washers plus moly grease. The only exception to this were the 2 joints in the waist where I added serrated washers to the outside of the clevis. The main reason for this is the M12 bolts I have are partially threaded and don`t want the nuts to bottom out on the thread before reaching torque, also removed the need to cut down the length of the bolt.

Starting with the spine and shoulder sections. Took a by feel best guess for the tightness of the 2 neck and upper waist joints. The inner shrug joint I made nice and tight, at this point I don`t want her shoulders to move up/ down easily.

20221228_144000.jpg (534.32 KiB) Viewed 513 times

Time for a test fit. No arms for now, and the ends of the shoulders taped up with XO tape to protect the TPE.
Refitting is just the reverse process of removal and is nice and easy, but reconnecting the 3 joints is damn fiddly, Took about 2 hours to coax all the bolts and washers into place. ( The shoulders are a lot easier with the arms attached).
For the waist joint, again she needs to be bent forward it the waist to get a spanner seated on the bolt head. Managed to squeeze in my smaller torque wrench and onto the nut. This tops out at 25Nm, too loose for my needs but more than adequate for testing the rest of the joints.

20221214_170259.jpg (569.86 KiB) Viewed 513 times

Adjusted the neck joints by pulling the neck up over the spine, and torqued up the outer shrug joints till I could twist her at the waist without the shoulders moving.
But more importantly, she can now do this:

20221214_170344.jpg (515.7 KiB) Viewed 513 times

Eeee, I feel like a proud new dad , but way to loose.

I will give you my torque setting later, once I have some final numbers and they can be all in one place, but for now the bones have to come out again.

Once out, tightened up the upper waist joint and re-torqued the inner shrugs to match the outer shrugs then reattach the arms.

20221228_150813.jpg (549.47 KiB) Viewed 513 times

Again, best guess by feel joint tightness. Soon found while moving the arms out and over the inner shrugs were also moving too easily, tightened them up till they just about stopped moving.
Time for another test fit including the arms. Waist side/side still too loose, elbows and arm attachment a little too loose, but with the addition of TPE the inner shrug is now a little too tight.
Looks like a fine balancing act between the arm and shrugging movements, while still being able to move the shrugs without having to move the arm.
After a few more removals and refitting finally got a setup I`m happy with, so time for a longer testing period ( at least one photo shoot).
For now I`m sticking with the MF hand plates but with wire fingers....

20230111_154408.jpg (737.07 KiB) Viewed 513 times

...makes things quicker and easier to test out different wire types for stiffness and durability.
There are actually 3 different wire types in that photo.

To be continued...

[seagull]

Is Nitinol wire in there?

[shigowa68]

Is Nitinol wire in there?

Not heard of that one, any good?

[seagull]

This is a link to Mishka's post
viewtopic.php?p=2023481#p2023481
but there is a whole lot of topic interaction with Mishka, ADHERAQ777 & a few others
viewtopic.php?t=142764

[Michaelangelo]

> The inner shrug joint I made nice and tight, at this point I don`t want her shoulders to move up/ down easily.

Ah how I wish I could do this for Mira. Up/down, up/down every time we get a t-shirt on her...

And the wire looks interesting. Esp. second from right. I really pared down Mira's MF fingers, sacrificing grip strength for prettier fingers and fewer knobbly bits. Might post the video once I find the time. Basically swapped out the screws for worm screws and cut all the flat bits of plastic off. Also cut the thumb shorter.

Your thread continues to be an inspiration to us all! Enjoy the weekend!

[gogodolls]

WOW! What a spectacular overhaul!

You sir, your skills, knowledge and ingenuity seem limitless! I am very, very impressed by your work! BRAVO!
Cheers!

[Cinnamon2077]

Just read the first two pages so far, shigowa68, and I gotta say you're saving my skin here with your photos and tools. My doll, a WM 172D has a shattered pelvis (the inverted U has shattered at the left corner weld that joins the tubes together, because of leverage putting a stupid amount of force on a natural weak point...), so I'm in the process of fishing the pelvis out and either...

1/ welding it back up as originally constructed and popping it back in, OR

2/ welding it back up and, additionally, reinforcing that sucker to withstand the leverage from moving her long legs about, OR

3/ if I'm super-keen, I design up a single piece of stainless steel in software and get it 3D printed... OR

4/ I'm an idiot, and a random forum post I'm yet to read reveals the way I will actually do it...

On a factory production note, I wondered why the pelvis was three tubes welded together when those legs, I mean moving them about, is going to put forces directly onto the welded areas, and not constructed like the front fork of a bicycle, which is a continuous arc of steel in a U-shape.

Anyway, the Dremel bit you're using to delete the spot welds on those bolts is definitely a better idea than what I did (don't ask, but I got it done on the one hip I've done so far...), so I'll be using your method for the rest. Also I have a LOT of flesh repair to do later, so I'm also hitting the forums again for that, too. Eh, it's fun.

Oh! One more detail on my doll's skeleton is that it appears to be a 2020 Evo model. I looked at (with some jealousy), a 2021 geared model used at Starpery (they used to use the Evo skeleton too, apparently, but last I saw they've moved onto the geared one). So now I'm partly thinking, for now maybe I just continue to do what you're doing, since my doll also has a floppy rotating leg and floppiness in (some) of the shoulder movement (yet, ridiculous stiffness in part of the left's movement). Also, in the end, I think my doll may end up with a cyborg look, especially if I need easy access to these Evo joints. I'm definitely going to experiment. And I guess if I want a better skeleton (like, the geared one), I'm gonna buy another doll (like the WM175B, perhaps... in a few more years, lol)

Okay... 6 more pages to read and then I may have some more thoughts...

Oh! And mega-thanks for all these photos and your whole process. Did I already say you're saving my skin here? Yes, and it deserves to be said twice. Thank you!

[RevJack]

Just read the first two pages so far, shigowa68, and I gotta say you're saving my skin here with your photos and tools. My doll, a WM 172D has a shattered pelvis (the inverted U has shattered at the left corner weld that joins the tubes together, because of leverage putting a stupid amount of force on a natural weak point...), so I'm in the process of fishing the pelvis out and either...

1/ welding it back up as originally constructed and popping it back in, OR

2/ welding it back up and, additionally, reinforcing that sucker to withstand the leverage from moving her long legs about, OR

3/ if I'm super-keen, I design up a single piece of stainless steel in software and get it 3D printed... OR

4/ I'm an idiot, and a random forum post I'm yet to read reveals the way I will actually do it...

On a factory production note, I wondered why the pelvis was three tubes welded together when those legs, I mean moving them about, is going to put forces directly onto the welded areas, and not constructed like the front fork of a bicycle, which is a continuous arc of steel in a U-shape.

Anyway, the Dremel bit you're using to delete the spot welds on those bolts is definitely a better idea than what I did (don't ask, but I got it done on the one hip I've done so far...), so I'll be using your method for the rest. Also I have a LOT of flesh repair to do later, so I'm also hitting the forums again for that, too. Eh, it's fun.

Oh! One more detail on my doll's skeleton is that it appears to be a 2020 Evo model. I looked at (with some jealousy), a 2021 geared model used at Starpery (they used to use the Evo skeleton too, apparently, but last I saw they've moved onto the geared one). So now I'm partly thinking, for now maybe I just continue to do what you're doing, since my doll also has a floppy rotating leg and floppiness in (some) of the shoulder movement (yet, ridiculous stiffness in part of the left's movement). Also, in the end, I think my doll may end up with a cyborg look, especially if I need easy access to these Evo joints. I'm definitely going to experiment. And I guess if I want a better skeleton (like, the geared one), I'm gonna buy another doll (like the WM175B, perhaps... in a few more years, lol)

Okay... 6 more pages to read and then I may have some more thoughts...

Oh! And mega-thanks for all these photos and your whole process. Did I already say you're saving my skin here? Yes, and it deserves to be said twice. Thank you!

More reading material for ya,
viewtopic.php?t=154571

[Photo_guy]

All very impressive!
Nice work.

[Socratus]

Really useful this, for helping me understand how my doll's metal skeleton works.. Doubt I'd be able to fix her if she busted, but at least I know I can have a go now. Thanks for making this thread.

[Cinnamon2077]

Just read the first two pages so far, shigowa68, and I gotta say you're saving my skin here with your photos and tools. My doll, a WM 172D has a shattered pelvis (the inverted U has shattered at the left corner weld that joins the tubes together, because of leverage putting a stupid amount of force on a natural weak point...), so I'm in the process of fishing the pelvis out and either...

...

More reading material for ya,
viewtopic.php?t=154571

Thanks RevJack, been a while since I was on here ( part procrastination, part waiting for supplies ). I've fished my doll's pelvis out now. No rust or anything, just a weld failure. I read your thread and see your doll had a curved U-shape pelvis and it broke (on both sides! ), so that shape isn't the miracle fix I was hoping.

Once I've gotten the two broken parts welded together again, I'm gonna look at cutting up one of those anal speculums from this thread (the crazy thing with the six arms) into arcs to brace the legs of the pelvis closer to the hips. I'm making some changes to my doll's internals ( been wanting to for ages ) to give her a powered cyber-vagina (lol), which has meant lots of TPE carving and a desire for a more substantial pelvis structure and a tail bone ( of sorts ).

I'll be sure to make a new thread documenting my progress... ( whenever I find time )

Since I finished the thread, shigowa68, I also noticed that "lean to the side" joint in the spine is super-tight on my girl. I remember looking at her instructions when the doll arrived, thinking she could do it, but I was so afraid of breaking her because who knew where the joint was? Now I found it, she will ( with great difficulty ) bend there. But I don't intend to take that join apart. Eased with a lube of some sort, perhaps?