Allow me to (re)introduce myself and Troy

[sactojoe]

Sam40 you have the right of it, he does look like a Klaus!! Sactojoe... Man, hats off to you!! He is amazing..

So I got the skeleton back yesterday.. They did a great job.. Now it is time I get to work.. So I am kind of concerned about the hands and feet molding them onto the skeleton and it being really obvious.. I am considering thick cuffs on his wrists and ankles to cover up the transition.. Does that sound way off?

His skeleton hands were shipped yesterday, so those will be here in a couple of weeks. I want to have everything done so all I have to do is attach and cast his hands..

This doll is going to be over 6' tall, and I realized I don't really have any clothes that will fit him other then my oversized ratty t-shirts and lounge pants.. LOL!!! I am going to have to go shopping for my guy.. LOL!!!

Thanks Muesky! Big guys like Klaus are the reason why I'm getting in to this. The bigger the better! It's a tough engineering problem to make dolls this big and have them be moveable and not fall apart under their own weight. I'm so excited that I can see a path forward.

I excited for you that all the pieces of your doll are coming together! You gotta post pics of your skeleton. I've been researching parts to assemble my own and any info helps! I ordered a 12" stop motion armature to look at the mechanics of how it moves. It seems super fiddly and probably won't work with a doll where it is cast in silicone. For that I would need a "set it and forget it" application. I switched out the rods for longer ones. Here it is next to my 18" model:

IMG20220622101835.jpg (2.21 MiB) Viewed 628 times

The seams on dolls can be problematic. I think I remember that the first Realdolls had visible wrist seams at the start. It's a learning process. To cover up the seams on Troy I used stacked bracelets on one wrist and a leather cuff on the other. It's good that he's not afraid of a little jewelry! The wrist ankle openings seem pretty tight on the body suit, so the seams might be pretty minimal if you get the overall shape right.

I'm really interested in the hands you have on order too. And in BLACK! It's going to be so cool.

You'll definitely want some new clothes for your guy! It's a struggle for me to keep my guys fully dressed though!

Muscle Dad Wade says Hi! He's been helping me watch the prints to make sure everything runs smoothly. His presence can be a little distracting!

IMG20220621122608.jpg (2.69 MiB) Viewed 628 times

[muesky6969]

Thanks Muesky! Big guys like Klaus are the reason why I'm getting in to this. The bigger the better! It's a tough engineering problem to make dolls this big and have them be moveable and not fall apart under their own weight. I'm so excited that I can see a path forward.

I excited for you that all the pieces of your doll are coming together! You gotta post pics of your skeleton. I've been researching parts to assemble my own and any info helps! I ordered a 12" stop motion armature to look at the mechanics of how it moves. It seems super fiddly and probably won't work with a doll where it is cast in silicone. For that I would need a "set it and forget it" application. I switched out the rods for longer ones. Here it is next to my 18" model:

IMG20220622101835.jpg

The seams on dolls can be problematic. I think I remember that the first Realdolls had visible wrist seams at the start. It's a learning process. To cover up the seams on Troy I used stacked bracelets on one wrist and a leather cuff on the other. It's good that he's not afraid of a little jewelry! The wrist ankle openings seem pretty tight on the body suit, so the seams might be pretty minimal if you get the overall shape right.

I'm really interested in the hands you have on order too. And in BLACK! It's going to be so cool.

You'll definitely want some new clothes for your guy! It's a struggle for me to keep my guys fully dressed though!

Muscle Dad Wade says Hi! He's been helping me watch the prints to make sure everything runs smoothly. His presence can be a little distracting!

IMG20220621122608.jpg

Okay so does Big Daddy Wade just sit around with his willy out? Cuz I am not sure I have seen a picture of him without his penis out.. But hey, if you got it like him, might as well flaunt it. Right?

Well I am quickly getting back to myself, so I have really channeled some serious squirrel energy.. I went to take pictures of the doll skeleton in the livingroom and decided I could paint the wall, since I moved the bookshelf that was there.. This reminded me that I wanted to move a cabinet I have in the bedroom to where the bookshelf was. So I went to clear out the cabinet and get it ready to move.. Which reminded me I had clothes that need to be folded in the dryer.. After doing that, I needed a drink and decided to do the dishes. Then I remembered I needed to take pictures of the doll skeleton for you, but the wall wasn't dry so I decided to just make do at the studio door, but needed to put the arms on first, so had to go find the tools to do that..

Finally here is the doll skeleton..

Full skeleton.jpg (119.51 KiB) Viewed 620 times

The skeleton is about 5'8" without the head or the foot bolts so it will be around 6'1" when done.

Shoulders and neck.jpg (84.36 KiB) Viewed 620 times

So I had to widen the shoulders a lot and I wanted the shrugging shoulders and the neck attachment. That came off the 148cm skeleton. Ended up cutting two 2 1/2" pieces to widen the shoulders. The arms were not long enough on either skeleton and I wanted the elbow joints from the 148cm doll, as it has guides to keep the arms from hyper extending backwards. So I cut the elbow joints out with extra length and attached the pieces to the upper arm and wrist of the 170cm frame.

Torso.jpg (105.13 KiB) Viewed 620 times

So I really lucked up on this one.. I cut the 148cm skeleton where the spine meets the hip tubing and the 170cm where the spine meet the shoulders and voila! it was the perfect length for the torso..

hips and legs.jpg (97.17 KiB) Viewed 620 times

Honestly I feel like the hips and legs for these skeletons are made for a variety size dolls.. Fortunately the whole lower half was absolutely correctly proportioned for the body suit.. Which was a darn good thing as this doll was really damaged during shipping and the thigh pipes were bent all to crap and that would have been an absolute mess trying to weld anything on it..

When I get the suit out again I will take measurements of the exact size of the skeleton.. That way we have the size for the Smitzen suits if anyone wants to order a doll skeleton..

FYI about having a skeleton made here in the states.. So I priced out stainless steel tubing.. For these dolls you need 1/2, 3/4, 1" and 2 1/2 stainless steel tubing and let me tell you that crap isn't cheap.. Just the pipe alone will run you around $300-400. Then all the bolts, connectors, washers and U brackets is another $50. To have the full thing welded even with a discount is going to cost you around $300-400.. That doesn't count the articulated hands which until I get the set in I have just some theoretical ideas on how to make. Honestly unless I can source the materials cheaper and learn to weld, I am just going to order the skeletons from WM.. I am going to try to contact the factory directly and see if I can get them a bit cheaper then going through a vendor.. But even going through a vendor would be cheaper and save me a lot of time, which in my case I never have enough of..

[sactojoe]

Okay so does Big Daddy Wade just sit around with his willy out? Cuz I am not sure I have seen a picture of him without his penis out.. But hey, if you got it like him, might as well flaunt it. Right?

Well I am quickly getting back to myself, so I have really channeled some serious squirrel energy.. I went to take pictures of the doll skeleton in the livingroom and decided I could paint the wall, since I moved the bookshelf that was there.. This reminded me that I wanted to move a cabinet I have in the bedroom to where the bookshelf was. So I went to clear out the cabinet and get it ready to move.. Which reminded me I had clothes that need to be folded in the dryer.. After doing that, I needed a drink and decided to do the dishes. Then I remembered I needed to take pictures of the doll skeleton for you, but the wall wasn't dry so I decided to just make do at the studio door, but needed to put the arms on first, so had to go find the tools to do that..

Finally here is the doll skeleton..
Full skeleton.jpg
The skeleton is about 5'8" without the head or the foot bolts so it will be around 6'1" when done.
Shoulders and neck.jpg
So I had to widen the shoulders a lot and I wanted the shrugging shoulders and the neck attachment. That came off the 148cm skeleton. Ended up cutting two 2 1/2" pieces to widen the shoulders. The arms were not long enough on either skeleton and I wanted the elbow joints from the 148cm doll, as it has guides to keep the arms from hyper extending backwards. So I cut the elbow joints out with extra length and attached the pieces to the upper arm and wrist of the 170cm frame.
Torso.jpg
So I really lucked up on this one.. I cut the 148cm skeleton where the spine meets the hip tubing and the 170cm where the spine meet the shoulders and voila! it was the perfect length for the torso..
hips and legs.jpg
Honestly I feel like the hips and legs for these skeletons are made for a variety size dolls.. Fortunately the whole lower half was absolutely correctly proportioned for the body suit.. Which was a darn good thing as this doll was really damaged during shipping and the thigh pipes were bent all to crap and that would have been an absolute mess trying to weld anything on it..

When I get the suit out again I will take measurements of the exact size of the skeleton.. That way we have the size for the Smitzen suits if anyone wants to order a doll skeleton..

FYI about having a skeleton made here in the states.. So I priced out stainless steel tubing.. For these dolls you need 1/2, 3/4, 1" and 2 1/2 stainless steel tubing and let me tell you that crap isn't cheap.. Just the pipe alone will run you around $300-400. Then all the bolts, connectors, washers and U brackets is another $50. To have the full thing welded even with a discount is going to cost you around $300-400.. That doesn't count the articulated hands which until I get the set in I have just some theoretical ideas on how to make. Honestly unless I can source the materials cheaper and learn to weld, I am just going to order the skeletons from WM.. I am going to try to contact the factory directly and see if I can get them a bit cheaper then going through a vendor.. But even going through a vendor would be cheaper and save me a lot of time, which in my case I never have enough of..

Yup, that's how Wade hangs out most of the time! I like to give his cock a loving squeeze when I walk by.

I printed/poured that new dildo for him. It's a firmer grade and has a more matte finish than the first one. I put a stiff rod in the center, but I am still working on making a smaller mold for a separate core. That way I can make dual density dildos that are firmer on the inside and softer on the outside. It'll give me practice with registering a different material inside the bigger mold for when I work on the big doll.

One thing about big cocks is that they require a lot of silicone! I used a pint kit on this one alone, but it's worth it for him to be swinging 2 lbs of meat between his legs!

Thank you so much for the photos! They really are worth a thousand words. It is amazing how you pieced together a new skeleton with the right size and function from two old dolls. Do you think the connectors are standard parts or are they custom for doll makers? If you know any of the proper names for the pieces I can start shopping on the google.

For my doll. I am prepping the 36" tall Auggie. Sandable primer is arriving tomorrow and I bought some bondo putty too. Any blemishes that are in the master model will transfer to the mold and on to the finished doll, so a little extra effort is worth it. I was pricing mold materials and I found some silicone that was similar in price to urethane. It's coming tomorrow and I'll test it out. I should be able to start making the mold this weekend. I need to get a firmer material for the mother mold, but I haven't worked that out completely.

[sactojoe]

Hi again Muesky,

I've been testing out different silicone blends this weekend. I threw in some charcoal I have to get the black color and it works great! I was going to post a pic, but it doesn't show much info. It's Black! This stuff is dirt cheap, but it is messy. I have to double bag it and it still gets everywhere.

I was able to make a dual firmness cast where there is a firmer silicone core and softer skin on the outside. It's working pretty amazing for dildos. Later I will do something similar to cast the lighter core inside the doll, but it will be a bit harder to engineer since the lighter core will want to float. I remember Loveable Dolls used to sell factory seconds where the foam core in the chest would float to close to the skin and you could see it. Subtle, but still visible.

[muesky6969]

Hi again Muesky,

I've been testing out different silicone blends this weekend. I threw in some charcoal I have to get the black color and it works great! I was going to post a pic, but it doesn't show much info. It's Black! This stuff is dirt cheap, but it is messy. I have to double bag it and it still gets everywhere.

I was able to make a dual firmness cast where there is a firmer silicone core and softer skin on the outside. It's working pretty amazing for dildos. Later I will do something similar to cast the lighter core inside the doll, but it will be a bit harder to engineer since the lighter core will want to float. I remember Loveable Dolls used to sell factory seconds where the foam core in the chest would float to close to the skin and you could see it. Subtle, but still visible.

Okay, so I did not get to practice with silicone this weekend.. So the charcoal you used was it just powder? Does it change the consistency of the silicone? Yes, I am asking for my self.. LOL

Are you willing to share your findings on the silicone blends? See I purchased Eco-flex 00-02 and 00-30 as they are a softer silicone but I am worried they may be too soft for the hands and feet..

I am waiting to practice with the silicone, as I am waiting for a couple of 1/6 doll heads to come in and I am going to use my 1/6 to practice life casting. Thought I would kill two birds with one stone and cast a solid black 1/6 doll with the head, hands and feet attached and a wire skeleton (I will make) inside, so it can be posed... Might get a female bald 1/6 head and cast a black female doll as well.. There is a good market for these dolls so maybe I can at least get my money back for the silicone I bought to practice with..

I bet you could sell your smaller models when you are done with them.. Just a thought..

[sactojoe]

Okay, so I did not get to practice with silicone this weekend.. So the charcoal you used was it just powder? Does it change the consistency of the silicone? Yes, I am asking for my self.. LOL

Are you willing to share your findings on the silicone blends? See I purchased Eco-flex 00-02 and 00-30 as they are a softer silicone but I am worried they may be too soft for the hands and feet..

I am waiting to practice with the silicone, as I am waiting for a couple of 1/6 doll heads to come in and I am going to use my 1/6 to practice life casting. Thought I would kill two birds with one stone and cast a solid black 1/6 doll with the head, hands and feet attached and a wire skeleton (I will make) inside, so it can be posed... Might get a female bald 1/6 head and cast a black female doll as well.. There is a good market for these dolls so maybe I can at least get my money back for the silicone I bought to practice with..

I bet you could sell your smaller models when you are done with them.. Just a thought..

Yeah, I just got a 1lb bag of activated charcoal on Amazon when I was on a kick a few years ago. You just mix it in to get enough to get the blackout level you want. It's pretty inert and I haven't noticed any changes to sheen or texture. Mine didn't interfere with gelling, but you you never know. You could always do a small test and return it if there is an issue.

20 and 30 are pretty soft as silicones go. You might try their 00-50 which is like a standard rubber dildo. The eco 20 is more like a jelly dildo. I wouldn't want to have to stand on them

You could always do a custom blend too. Mix a and b individually of each silicone, then mix them together. They have "silicone thinner" which you can mix in to make a silicone softer. It is basically just silicone oil. I think their price on that one is pretty high, but other silicone oils might work too. Silicone oil is used in a lot of industries so there is more price competition.

I think that is a great idea about starting with a 1/6 doll first. 1/6th the height is 1/216th the volume and materials! I have thought about selling 1/4 and half scale figures, but I haven't looked in to it yet. Right now I want to learn as much as I can at the smaller scales without getting bogged down with them trying to be perfect. The small sizes are for the mistakes! When I'm done with those stages and if there is a market for them, I would love to make those kinds of dolls too! The overhead is definitely much less and I won't have to move to a bigger workshop.

I have started filling, priming and sanding my models. I have a couple more layers and then I can start working on molds.

IMG20220626220027.jpg (2.74 MiB) Viewed 520 times

[muesky6969]

Yeah, I just got a 1lb bag of activated charcoal on Amazon when I was on a kick a few years ago. You just mix it in to get enough to get the blackout level you want. It's pretty inert and I haven't noticed any changes to sheen or texture. Mine didn't interfere with gelling, but you you never know. You could always do a small test and return it if there is an issue.

20 and 30 are pretty soft as silicones go. You might try their 00-50 which is like a standard rubber dildo. The eco 20 is more like a jelly dildo. I wouldn't want to have to stand on them

You could always do a custom blend too. Mix a and b individually of each silicone, then mix them together. They have "silicone thinner" which you can mix in to make a silicone softer. It is basically just silicone oil. I think their price on that one is pretty high, but other silicone oils might work too. Silicone oil is used in a lot of industries so there is more price competition.

I think that is a great idea about starting with a 1/6 doll first. 1/6th the height is 1/216th the volume and materials! I have thought about selling 1/4 and half scale figures, but I haven't looked in to it yet. Right now I want to learn as much as I can at the smaller scales without getting bogged down with them trying to be perfect. The small sizes are for the mistakes! When I'm done with those stages and if there is a market for them, I would love to make those kinds of dolls too! The overhead is definitely much less and I won't have to move to a bigger workshop.

I have started filling, priming and sanding my models. I have a couple more layers and then I can start working on molds.

IMG20220626220027.jpg

Man you are a life saver, so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I am going to order some charcoal, as the mica I have has a metallic sheen and will not work for Ebon's hands and feet.. Also thank you for the info about the Ecoflow 20 and 30.. So I bought some more stiffer more rubber like silicone to make the molds out of.. Maybe I can add some of that to what I have.. If I can't find a density I like I will check out the 50..

So the 1/6 market is pretty lucrative, but heavily controlled by China and it is an expensive hobby.. The bodies are over blown muscular for the male dolls and skinny huge boobed females.. The heads are mostly famous actors and actresses or anime characters.. Since I have some dolls I am just going to use them to practice life casting and I might as well make some money while I am at it.. Right! I can see your 1/4 dolls being really popular..

. FYI, I don't know if you ever checked out his stuff but Wheezer is back.. Literally thought he was dead, as he just disappeared for like a year.. A lot of what I have learned about working with TPE was inspired by him.. He knows a whole lot about working on dolls.

[muesky6969]

Okay folks! This is going to be cross posted in several threads because I need help, and more minds on this the better..

So the articulated hands came in yesterday.. Right now I need to make them work but eventually I will to fabricate better ones.. This is what I was sent.. Now I know it is pretty hard to tell much about them because the metal is covered with a flocking in what I guess it to help the tpe to stick together.. So it is hard to see that the joints just have small rivets holding the fingers together and giving them movement..

skeleton hands.jpg (93.47 KiB) Viewed 479 times

Right hand skeleton.jpg (83.08 KiB) Viewed 479 times

The bracket on the end of the skeleton arm, I want to keep because it gives the wrist the ability to turn sideways. Plus where you see the nut on the skeletal hands that is where they will need to be attached to the skeleton.. What can I use to attach the hand skeleton bolt to the wrist U bracket? I can cut that bolt down if I need to ..

Wrist connection3.jpg (65.21 KiB) Viewed 479 times

wrist connection2.jpg (64.84 KiB) Viewed 479 times

wrist connection1.jpg (74.66 KiB) Viewed 479 times

Wrist connection.jpg (72.63 KiB) Viewed 479 times

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

[sactojoe]

Man you are a life saver, so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I am going to order some charcoal, as the mica I have has a metallic sheen and will not work for Ebon's hands and feet.. Also thank you for the info about the Ecoflow 20 and 30.. So I bought some more stiffer more rubber like silicone to make the molds out of.. Maybe I can add some of that to what I have.. If I can't find a density I like I will check out the 50..

So the 1/6 market is pretty lucrative, but heavily controlled by China and it is an expensive hobby.. The bodies are over blown muscular for the male dolls and skinny huge boobed females.. The heads are mostly famous actors and actresses or anime characters.. Since I have some dolls I am just going to use them to practice life casting and I might as well make some money while I am at it.. Right! I can see your 1/4 dolls being really popular..

. FYI, I don't know if you ever checked out his stuff but Wheezer is back.. Literally thought he was dead, as he just disappeared for like a year.. A lot of what I have learned about working with TPE was inspired by him.. He knows a whole lot about working on dolls.

Glad to help! Since I have the charcoal lying around I've used it for a number of odd jobs around the house. When you mentioned solid BLACK, there is nothing better!

I did my first test pour for my 1/4 guy. The gist is, ALWAYS test EVERYTHING in small amounts first. Even though this is just a test for the full size doll things can still get royally messed up! I made a box mold first and used clay for the dividing line. I remember that my clay can make the surface of the silicone tacky and that vaseline works well as a sealer. So I slathered vaseline all over the doll and the mold. It set up in a few hours and everything cured well except for the parts that touched the vaseline coated doll. THE most important part! It was late so I went to bed in disgust. I checked on it first thing in the morning and the silicone firmed up but I had already taken the model out of the mold, so I'm not sure if it will be a good surface. On my lunch break I decided to do a pour anyway. I put mold straps on and filled the mold. Of course it started leaking immediately! I needed to buy time for my plan of attack so I put the mold in a bucket and popped it in the fridge. After work I tightened everything up and scooped all the leaked silicone back in to the mold. It seems like everything is holding, but what a mess! He is now resting before I check on him in a few hours. He's not going to be perfect but I wanted to test the firmness of the silicone and see if there are any (other) problems with the mold.

Your hands look so cool! I'm jealous since I haven't gotten that far yet. Could you take a photo with the forearm next to the hand in the same orientation that you want to attach them? It's hard for me to visualize what is going on. You might be able to take the U bracket off the hands and attach them to the U bracket on the skeleton. Or is that what you didn't want to do?

[muesky6969]

Glad to help! Since I have the charcoal lying around I've used it for a number of odd jobs around the house. When you mentioned solid BLACK, there is nothing better!

I did my first test pour for my 1/4 guy. The gist is, ALWAYS test EVERYTHING in small amounts first. Even though this is just a test for the full size doll things can still get royally messed up! I made a box mold first and used clay for the dividing line. I remember that my clay can make the surface of the silicone tacky and that vaseline works well as a sealer. So I slathered vaseline all over the doll and the mold. It set up in a few hours and everything cured well except for the parts that touched the vaseline coated doll. THE most important part! It was late so I went to bed in disgust. I checked on it first thing in the morning and the silicone firmed up but I had already taken the model out of the mold, so I'm not sure if it will be a good surface. On my lunch break I decided to do a pour anyway. I put mold straps on and filled the mold. Of course it started leaking immediately! I needed to buy time for my plan of attack so I put the mold in a bucket and popped it in the fridge. After work I tightened everything up and scooped all the leaked silicone back in to the mold. It seems like everything is holding, but what a mess! He is now resting before I check on him in a few hours. He's not going to be perfect but I wanted to test the firmness of the silicone and see if there are any (other) problems with the mold.

Your hands look so cool! I'm jealous since I haven't gotten that far yet. Could you take a photo with the forearm next to the hand in the same orientation that you want to attach them? It's hard for me to visualize what is going on. You might be able to take the U bracket off the hands and attach them to the U bracket on the skeleton. Or is that what you didn't want to do?

So how heavy is the 1/4 guy? You get much bigger and weight is going to become an issue, really fast.. I know you know this but you haven't mentioned weight reduction, and I am a nosey busy body.. LOL!!

When I ordered the sample kits of the EF 20 and 30 I also ordered some silicone mold release. It is supposed to be specifically silicone to silicone casting.. From using vaseline to clean my dolls periodically, and seeing how much it improves the elasticity and texture of the TPE, I knew vaseline was not something to use.. Sorry for not imparting that information..

Do think casting in the winter is a better idea, if you don't have a huge refrigerator? Hummmm!!! Totally never considered that might be something I would need.. Talking to the guy at the Smooth-on dealer he said that sometime it can take 12-24 hours for silicone to set..

I will get the pictures of the hands next to the wrist... Friday, I am going to have to go to the electrical store.. I think they will have the parts that will work... Not sure exactly what I need but I have been shown a few ideas and it might just have to be a cobbling together of the ideas.. Here is the thing there is a lot of wiggle room on these suits and skeletons.. Still talking to a rep at WM to see if they can have skeletons made for a reasonable cost. Been sending pictures back and forth with the measurements. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon.. I am going to have to talk to them about how the articulated hands are made.. The hand bones are built like for a woman not a man.. I am going to make this set work but only until I design a new set that are stronger and easy to fix in case something does get broken.. Keep thinking spring steel might be an option but whew that stuff isn't cheap..

[sactojoe]

So how heavy is the 1/4 guy? You get much bigger and weight is going to become an issue, really fast.. I know you know this but you haven't mentioned weight reduction, and I am a nosey busy body.. LOL!!

When I ordered the sample kits of the EF 20 and 30 I also ordered some silicone mold release. It is supposed to be specifically silicone to silicone casting.. From using vaseline to clean my dolls periodically, and seeing how much it improves the elasticity and texture of the TPE, I knew vaseline was not something to use.. Sorry for not imparting that information..

Do think casting in the winter is a better idea, if you don't have a huge refrigerator? Hummmm!!! Totally never considered that might be something I would need.. Talking to the guy at the Smooth-on dealer he said that sometime it can take 12-24 hours for silicone to set..

I will get the pictures of the hands next to the wrist... Friday, I am going to have to go to the electrical store.. I think they will have the parts that will work... Not sure exactly what I need but I have been shown a few ideas and it might just have to be a cobbling together of the ideas.. Here is the thing there is a lot of wiggle room on these suits and skeletons.. Still talking to a rep at WM to see if they can have skeletons made for a reasonable cost. Been sending pictures back and forth with the measurements. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon.. I am going to have to talk to them about how the articulated hands are made.. The hand bones are built like for a woman not a man.. I am going to make this set work but only until I design a new set that are stronger and easy to fix in case something does get broken.. Keep thinking spring steel might be an option but whew that stuff isn't cheap..

No worries! Learning new things is always an adventure. I have some Mann 205 coming for mold release, but it's still halfway across the country...

I've used vaseline before, but platinum silicone is very finicky. Vaseline is listed as an alternative release by Smooth On and is kind of optional anyway. My other molds turned out great. You just have to take your time during demolding so you don't tear the part or the mold. The Vaseline worked perfectly on top of the clay, but it only had a problem on the model that had a layer of primer on it. I think everything had a slight reaction since when I casted the other pieces directly in silicone it was fine. I'm glad it happened at this scale instead of one of my larger models, but it's still frustrating. I worked all day prepping the mold to get everything perfect. Oh well. I still was able to check out my cast and the parting lines are very good. The silicone mix I used is a little firm for how thick his limbs are. As the part gets thicker the resistance goes up by quite a bit during bending. I would want his hips, shoulders and torso to have more mobility. The softness of the silicone is a balance between feel, poseability, and durability.

As to what temperature is best for casting, I like warmer since it cures faster and more thoroughly. For some of my small casts I put the mold on my heat bed of my printer with a box over it to speed it up. Casting in winter can take forever, especially in a space like a garage. Putting everything in the fridge worked out because I needed to buy time to redo everything. It was more of an emergency measure.

My 1/4 scale guy is about 3lbs. That's fine for now, but the next size up will be 23lbs solid. That's when I am really going to test out lightening strategies. For my 18" guy I am going to redo the mold. I realized that I designed him to have his parting line in a completely flat plane and I never needed to use clay on the bottom half at all. I can just suspend him in the box and pour the first half up to his parting line and add a few registration spheres around the edge. I need to find some that will just be able to float. Hmmm. I could put them on pins and poke them through to the bottom of the box to suspend then in place. Part of what is most fun for me is figuring all these things out. Now to clean all the gunk off of him and start again!

That's interesting about the electrical parts. My foam mannequin has a skeleton made out of BX and it's not bad. I was planning on doing tests with those kinds of materials too. Let me know what goodies you find!

It would be great if one of the doll manufacturers could be a source for skeletons. I'm up for a lot, but putting a machine shop in my spare room might be a bridge too far! I can't remember exactly, but I think way back one of the manufacturers sourced their skeletons from someone else. MAidlee, maybe? It's a good way to focus on the artistry of doll making instead of having to figure out the mechanics too. You are at the mercy of what is currently available in the market though.

[muesky6969]

No worries! Learning new things is always an adventure. I have some Mann 205 coming for mold release, but it's still halfway across the country...

I've used vaseline before, but platinum silicone is very finicky. Vaseline is listed as an alternative release by Smooth On and is kind of optional anyway. My other molds turned out great. You just have to take your time during demolding so you don't tear the part or the mold. The Vaseline worked perfectly on top of the clay, but it only had a problem on the model that had a layer of primer on it. I think everything had a slight reaction since when I casted the other pieces directly in silicone it was fine. I'm glad it happened at this scale instead of one of my larger models, but it's still frustrating. I worked all day prepping the mold to get everything perfect. Oh well. I still was able to check out my cast and the parting lines are very good. The silicone mix I used is a little firm for how thick his limbs are. As the part gets thicker the resistance goes up by quite a bit during bending. I would want his hips, shoulders and torso to have more mobility. The softness of the silicone is a balance between feel, poseability, and durability.

As to what temperature is best for casting, I like warmer since it cures faster and more thoroughly. For some of my small casts I put the mold on my heat bed of my printer with a box over it to speed it up. Casting in winter can take forever, especially in a space like a garage. Putting everything in the fridge worked out because I needed to buy time to redo everything. It was more of an emergency measure.

My 1/4 scale guy is about 3lbs. That's fine for now, but the next size up will be 23lbs solid. That's when I am really going to test out lightening strategies. For my 18" guy I am going to redo the mold. I realized that I designed him to have his parting line in a completely flat plane and I never needed to use clay on the bottom half at all. I can just suspend him in the box and pour the first half up to his parting line and add a few registration spheres around the edge. I need to find some that will just be able to float. Hmmm. I could put them on pins and poke them through to the bottom of the box to suspend then in place. Part of what is most fun for me is figuring all these things out. Now to clean all the gunk off of him and start again!

That's interesting about the electrical parts. My foam mannequin has a skeleton made out of BX and it's not bad. I was planning on doing tests with those kinds of materials too. Let me know what goodies you find!

It would be great if one of the doll manufacturers could be a source for skeletons. I'm up for a lot, but putting a machine shop in my spare room might be a bridge too far! I can't remember exactly, but I think way back one of the manufacturers sourced their skeletons from someone else. MAidlee, maybe? It's a good way to focus on the artistry of doll making instead of having to figure out the mechanics too. You are at the mercy of what is currently available in the market though.

Well I am kind of following your lead as to molding and casting.. Pictures are always greatly appreciated.. That is the next step for me is to start molding and casting, 1/6 dolls to make sure I get the right silicone blend for Ebon's hands and feet. The male bald head should be here Saturday, so next week I can start making the mold and build the skeleton.. Since I cannot use a vacuum chamber for the hands and feet, as they are being cast straight on the doll I am going to have to practice without.. My thought is to leave a space open at the top of the head of the mold. Get the Slo-mold (it slows down the setting time for silicone). Pour some silicone in tap down the mold, pour some more until the mold is filled, with a bit sticking up at the top, that will be trimmed after molding..

The hands and feet will be easier in some ways as the top of both molds will be open, for the ankle and wrists.. This is such an exciting project.. I will be making videos on how I build the body up around the skeleton and putting it in the silicone suit.. They should be good entertainment if nothing else, as this is a one shot job..

I had to check to make sure BX is what I have used in the past for different projects and it is but I will say for the price fencing wire is stronger and much much cheaper.. What I mean about fencing wire for those unfamiliar is heavy gauged wire they use to run along of the top of chainlink to keep it from sagging, between post.. A bundle is like $20 which I believe is like 100+ feet.. It is great for making armatures and so much more.. It bends easy, but is strong and will hold it's shape when you bend it..

So I haven't heard back from WM yet about the custom skeletons but it has only been 24 hours.. It would make things a lot easier to have a skeleton to put in these silicone suits.. If we can get them for under $500 that is an excellent price, unless you have access to a bunch damaged of dolls.. It cost me $225 to have nine welds done on the skeleton I had cobbled together.. That doesn't include the two dolls I paid shipping to my house, which cost around $400 and the time it took me to cut up the pieces and splice them together.. They sent me a template on the skeleton where I just filled out the lengths how they need them.. If they are going to do this I will post a picture of the template so you have that to use for ordering skeletons.

Glad to hear molding silicone is better in the summer.. I really didn't want to wait until it gets cold to cast my dolls hands.. Again I appreciate all the information you are sharing.. Hopefully I am able to help you when you need it..

[sactojoe]

Well I am kind of following your lead as to molding and casting.. Pictures are always greatly appreciated.. That is the next step for me is to start molding and casting, 1/6 dolls to make sure I get the right silicone blend for Ebon's hands and feet. The male bald head should be here Saturday, so next week I can start making the mold and build the skeleton.. Since I cannot use a vacuum chamber for the hands and feet, as they are being cast straight on the doll I am going to have to practice without.. My thought is to leave a space open at the top of the head of the mold. Get the Slo-mold (it slows down the setting time for silicone). Pour some silicone in tap down the mold, pour some more until the mold is filled, with a bit sticking up at the top, that will be trimmed after molding..

The hands and feet will be easier in some ways as the top of both molds will be open, for the ankle and wrists.. This is such an exciting project.. I will be making videos on how I build the body up around the skeleton and putting it in the silicone suit.. They should be good entertainment if nothing else, as this is a one shot job..

I had to check to make sure BX is what I have used in the past for different projects and it is but I will say for the price fencing wire is stronger and much much cheaper.. What I mean about fencing wire for those unfamiliar is heavy gauged wire they use to run along of the top of chainlink to keep it from sagging, between post.. A bundle is like $20 which I believe is like 100+ feet.. It is great for making armatures and so much more.. It bends easy, but is strong and will hold it's shape when you bend it..

So I haven't heard back from WM yet about the custom skeletons but it has only been 24 hours.. It would make things a lot easier to have a skeleton to put in these silicone suits.. If we can get them for under $500 that is an excellent price, unless you have access to a bunch damaged of dolls.. It cost me $225 to have nine welds done on the skeleton I had cobbled together.. That doesn't include the two dolls I paid shipping to my house, which cost around $400 and the time it took me to cut up the pieces and splice them together.. They sent me a template on the skeleton where I just filled out the lengths how they need them.. If they are going to do this I will post a picture of the template so you have that to use for ordering skeletons.

Glad to hear molding silicone is better in the summer.. I really didn't want to wait until it gets cold to cast my dolls hands.. Again I appreciate all the information you are sharing.. Hopefully I am able to help you when you need it..

You have an ambitious plan with casting the hands and feet on to the full size doll! I'm not sure if I am wrapping my head around your process, but I will post pics of my models/molds casts with a few notes and I hope it can help. Please ask an questions!

IMG20220630205554.jpg (1.72 MiB) Viewed 415 times

I have been working on an 80% scale head with an oral opening to test out adding an insert during the molding process. It is probably my most complicated mold so far. I printed the head in halves including the mouth cavity. Then I put clay between the two halves to temporarily glue them together to make the mold for the insert (the small thing with the screws sticking out) and made a clay plug for the oral opening to close it up to hold silicone. Once this piece was done I separated the two halves and made the joining line less obvious on the model before I cast the outer mold. When done, I cut a jagged line on the back of the neck to release the model from the mold and then pried the head apart to release the mouth form. Now I screwed the mouth insert to the inside of the mold and made a pour. Everything worked as planned, but there are always improvements. The silicone was too firm for comfort and the throat too narrow (I had already cut the canal off the insert by the time I took the photo!) Also I made the throat curve down as they do, but for play the tongue actually gets in the way. I removed a bunch of material from the inside of the neck area and its a better fit now, but I will have to cast the head again in a softer material. Before I do that that I am thinking about upgrades like adding a hollow core in the cranium, refining the throat size/shape, adding eye sockets and maybe some sort of neck connector.

Here is a pic when I was waiting for the silicone to cure for the mold. There was a small leak ate the base but I plugged it up with some clay.

IMG20220627181258.jpg (2.85 MiB) Viewed 415 times

Here are some pics of the 1/4 scale model and box mold.

IMG20220627224027.jpg (2.39 MiB) Viewed 415 times

IMG20220630210125.jpg (1.92 MiB) Viewed 415 times

I can't wait to see the head of your guy when he comes in!

Thanks for the tip about the fence wire. I would have never come across that on my own! I'll have to check it out. I have some aluminum armature wire I have tried, but it tends to fatigue pretty easily and I'm afraid it would snap after not too long if used in a solid doll. That and it's pretty pricey for what you get.

[muesky6969]

You have an ambitious plan with casting the hands and feet on to the full size doll! I'm not sure if I am wrapping my head around your process, but I will post pics of my models/molds casts with a few notes and I hope it can help. Please ask an questions!

IMG20220630205554.jpg

I have been working on an 80% scale head with an oral opening to test out adding an insert during the molding process. It is probably my most complicated mold so far. I printed the head in halves including the mouth cavity. Then I put clay between the two halves to temporarily glue them together to make the mold for the insert (the small thing with the screws sticking out) and made a clay plug for the oral opening to close it up to hold silicone. Once this piece was done I separated the two halves and made the joining line less obvious on the model before I cast the outer mold. When done, I cut a jagged line on the back of the neck to release the model from the mold and then pried the head apart to release the mouth form. Now I screwed the mouth insert to the inside of the mold and made a pour. Everything worked as planned, but there are always improvements. The silicone was too firm for comfort and the throat too narrow (I had already cut the canal off the insert by the time I took the photo!) Also I made the throat curve down as they do, but for play the tongue actually gets in the way. I removed a bunch of material from the inside of the neck area and its a better fit now, but I will have to cast the head again in a softer material. Before I do that that I am thinking about upgrades like adding a hollow core in the cranium, refining the throat size/shape, adding eye sockets and maybe some sort of neck connector.

Here is a pic when I was waiting for the silicone to cure for the mold. There was a small leak ate the base but I plugged it up with some clay.

IMG20220627181258.jpg

Here are some pics of the 1/4 scale model and box mold.

IMG20220627224027.jpg

IMG20220630210125.jpg

I can't wait to see the head of your guy when he comes in!

Thanks for the tip about the fence wire. I would have never come across that on my own! I'll have to check it out. I have some aluminum armature wire I have tried, but it tends to fatigue pretty easily and I'm afraid it would snap after not too long if used in a solid doll. That and it's pretty pricey for what you get.

Well it seems this whole project is very ambitious, but things just seem to be coming together when I start to feel it just isn't going to work.. But that is literally how everything has been since I started working on these dolls. So many times I have been told "that's not possible" or "you can't do that". Silly rabbits that is like gas to a fire.. LOL!! Speaking of I actually found a connector that will work for attaching the hands to the skeleton.. I will be posting pictures of what I found once I go back to the hardware store and get smaller connection bolts.. Dumb me listened to a guy trying to mansplain what I need, and he had no idea what he was talking about..

Thanks for the pictures. As you said with the skeleton a picture is worth a 1000 words.. The method I am using I don't think will work for the dolls. So the molding process I am using is one I got off Smooth-On's website on how to life cast.. That is definitely a website you want to save in your favorites list.. They all kind of instructional videos.. So how you do it is you take a person or thing, cover the area being molded with a release agent, then you actually paint on the silicone/urethan/latex on to the person or body. (I have a silicone set of hands and feet I am going to use) Once it is dry, before you unmold the person or thing you puts one layer of plaster cloth to help the mold hold it's shape. Then you cut the mold off (carefully), and after demolding you add a few more layers of plaster cloth to make the casting rigid.. For this the mold seams are going to have to go down the middle of the hands and feet length ways. This is one of the most economic way or making life cast molds, as you don't have as much wasted molding material..

I really like how you did the head.. That was really cool.. Did you use hot glue to make the molding box? Hot glue is what I saw used in a video on how to make silicone molds but the person also used clear packing tape to to keep the silicone from leaking.. That was back when I thought I was going to have to mold the ears to graft onto Agares.. Sure went a totally different way with that..

So why do you need neck connectors? Are you not going to mold the dolls whole? I mean that is my plan, in the future is to have the head connected.. This is something a few companies are doing right now but it is only on their really small dolls, because of the weight issue.. I will redesign the skull and neck connection but yeah.. That might actually be easier, and more realistic.. JS If you do decide to have where the head is detachable I do recommend going with the same system they have on the manufactured dolls. I bet if you ask around you might be able to get a few doll skulls. I have two dolls coming in tomorrow or Tuesday, one I am going to repair for the guy and the other I am going to keep. The last doll that came is the head is way too small for the body, so I am going to have to find her a bigger head. So I may have a doll skull if you are interested.

Oh crap!! That is what I keep forgetting to do is take a picture of Ebon's head.. Man he is beautiful and the head is big.. Much bigger then the heads normally made for these dolls but it will be perfect for a 6'+ doll.. He is going to need to be aged up a little bit, of course I will graft elf ears and I need to do just a bit of fine tuning on his cheekbones but other then that he is amazing. I will get some pictures taken before I start cutting his ears.

My daughter used to tell people that her mom could fix anything with duct tape and copper wire.. LOL!! One hat I have worn in the past was working as a costume designer and seamstress in a costume shop.. That is how I learned about fence wire.. It is used a lot in the costume industry..

Yesterday was a good day. I was able to find another solution to a problem facing building my doll.. Since me and mine have decided we are not feeling very celebratory about our country this year, we are not going to celebrate the 4th on Monday but have a nice get together tomorrow.. So I will have time to experiment with silicone..

[seagull]

Part of what is most fun for me is figuring all these things out.
Damn straight sactojoe, this is what drives creativity