DIY stuff

[rubherkitty]

Yes, Abyss has many workers, but the 40 hr total is based upon the different jobs the workers do to build one doll. And they said at that time they produce 2 dolls per day.

If a person has the talent to do all the jobs that require 40 hrs to build the doll, then 2 weeks would offer 80 hrs work time to produce a doll. Now if a person already works a 40 hr work week at a regular job then doll making on a production level is not for them most likely. That person could spend a little time in the evening and full days on the weekend to produce 1 doll a month?

And then consider that Abyss and Sinthetics is based in California which is the highest cost state in the USA. If you're building a few dolls in Dry Gulch, Oklahoma and need help now and then you can hire some neighborhood teens for $10.00 an hour cash. Abyss is probably paying out $1,500.00 minimum per doll on worker wages plus add in utility bills, etc.

[JohnnyTempest]

again I don't understand what you want do....

We know smooth PLA since about 50years with EPOXY..... xD

image_2021-09-06_225927.png

And resin is dangerous, and expenssive, can use your brain a bit??? 100$ put for just smooth a part PLA about 1$?....

Not really dangerous, or expensive. You get what you pay for. I've been using Epoxies for my entire adult life 30+ years. Both epoxy and polyester resin's. He mix it too hot, you get a billowing black smoke. But that's because you're stupid.
If you mix it properly there's really no issue. I've used it for composite repair of fiberglass, Carbon fiber and Kevlar
I've worn gloves, sometimes I don't. You're not supposed to put it all over your hands. It goes in the mixing cup. And when you're mixing it it's best to do it outside, or in a well ventilated workspace. I used the hanger usually. I don't think I've ever worn a respirator for doing it. I'm more worried about my exposure to copper beryllium, and aluminum. But then there's also asbestos spent uranium (depleted uranium) and radiation. But hey… That's me.
Just saying;

John

[3dprinteddoll]

Not really dangerous, or expensive. You get what you pay for. I've been using Epoxies for my entire adult life 30+ years. (...)
John

It is going a little bit off-topic but I'll respond. Yeah it is always difficult to estimate the chances that due to traces of certain chemicals you will get sick, or won't. Some people smoke ciggarets for 30 years on, so breathe in the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which are carcinogenic and mutagenic, and still never get cancer. Also there were survivors of Hiroshima after all, where radiation they were exposed to for short time, could have ripped off DNA chains across thousands, if not milions of cells within an organism, and nevertheless they made it to old age.

Human organism is very powerful at fixing damages to DNA and removing damaged cells. When the immune system underperforms, or on rare infortunate circumstances mutaton leads to malfunctioning cell not being eliminated, and sometimes the cell keeps the ability to replicate, and that leads to tumorous tissue growth. Old people are more prone to get sick, children are also more prone, but age is not only factor.

There is no one type of epoxy resin, some are safer, some are less. Most common one (old type) is based on epichlorohydrin, that is known to be mutagenic and cancirogenic to animals, plus BPA which is known endoctrine distruptor even in trace quantities (that's why there is all that BPA-free trend about), but it does not mean you will certainly get sick because of repeated exposure to that stuff. There is just some increased risk, which cannot be precisely determined, and you can take it or not. But my approach in this project is "better to be safe, than to be sorry" even if I am overly cautious. Also important factor is that I am not doing all that in a well-ventilated workshop, garage or basement, but in my apartment, where I also live. Maybe that will change if I can't keep the project almost entirely "clean", but this is not going to happen at this very early phase.

Some citation:
"Epichlorohydrin is mainly used in the production of epoxy resins. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure to epichlorohydrin in the workplace has caused irritation to the eyes, respiratory tract, and skin of workers. At high levels of exposure, nausea, vomiting, cough, labored breathing, inflammation of the lung, pulmonary edema, and renal lesions may be observed in humans. Chronic (long-term) occupational exposure of humans to epichlorohydrin in air is associated with high levels of respiratory tract illness and hematological effects. Damage to the nasal passages, respiratory tract and kidneys have been observed in rodents exposed to epichlorohydrin by inhalation for acute or chronic duration. An increased incidence of tumors of the nasal cavity has been observed in rats exposed by inhalation. EPA has classified epichlorohydrin as a Group B2, probable human carcinogen."

"BPA is an endocrine disruptor. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) notes that BPA can imitate the body's hormones and interfere with the production of, response to, or action of natural hormones. For example, it can behave in a similar way to estrogen and other hormones in the human body."

Now comes the health issues related to 3D printing using FDM. While PLA (and PCL) are one of safest plastics to print with and are biodegradable, any 3D printing emits ultra-fine plastic particulate into the air (that's why I have constructed ventilated fumehood to do that at-home)
Some citation:
"UFPs are able to deposit in the lungs and airways of the head, where they can travel through the olfactory nerve to the brain, and studies have shown that UFPs may be an important part of the toxicity emitted from melting plastics. A number of studies have also shown that high UFP concentrations, such as from traffic pollution, are associated with adverse health effects, such as asthma, stroke and even decreased lifespan due to heart and lung disease"

But I don't want to have another 10 pages long discussion on health effects of different chemicals, vapors or fine particultes, because it will be very off-topic and we can create another thread for that.
With that being said and warning given, what individual people are going to do about it, who are working with the stuff, is entirely up to them.

I'm not saying resin cannot be handled properly, sure it can. I just want to keep my in-home hobby project, zero-risk, BPA-free, VOC-free, and if I would do that professionally (what I do not) in accordance with modern sustainable manufacturing practices/guidelines, but that is just my personal choice.

[JohnnyTempest]

Not really dangerous, or expensive. You get what you pay for. I've been using Epoxies for my entire adult life 30+ years. (...)
John

It is going a little bit off-topic but I'll respond. Yeah it is always difficult to estimate the chances that due to traces of certain chemicals you will get sick, or won't. Some people smoke ciggarets for 30 years on, so breathe in the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which are carcinogenic and mutagenic, and still never get cancer. Also there were survivors of Hiroshima after all, where radiation they were exposed to for short time, could have ripped off DNA chains across thousands, if not milions of cells within an organism, and nevertheless they made it to old age.

Human organism is very powerful at fixing damages to DNA and removing damaged cells. When the immune system underperforms, or on rare infortunate circumstances mutaton leads to malfunctioning cell not being eliminated, and sometimes the cell keeps the ability to replicate, and that leads to tumorous tissue growth. Old people are more prone to get sick, children are also more prone, but age is not only factor.

There is no one type of epoxy resin, some are safer, some are less. Most common one (old type) is based on epichlorohydrin, that is known to be mutagenic and cancirogenic to animals, plus BPA which is known endoctrine distruptor even in trace quantities (that's why there is all that BPA-free trend about), but it does not mean you will certainly get sick because of repeated exposure to that stuff. There is just some increased risk, which cannot be precisely determined, and you can take it or not. But my approach in this project is "better to be safe, than to be sorry" even if I am overly cautious. Also important factor is that I am not doing all that in a well-ventilated workshop, garage or basement, but in my apartment, where I also live. Maybe that will change if I can't keep the project almost entirely "clean", but this is not going to happen at this very early phase.

Some citation:
"Epichlorohydrin is mainly used in the production of epoxy resins. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure to epichlorohydrin in the workplace has caused irritation to the eyes, respiratory tract, and skin of workers. At high levels of exposure, nausea, vomiting, cough, labored breathing, inflammation of the lung, pulmonary edema, and renal lesions may be observed in humans. Chronic (long-term) occupational exposure of humans to epichlorohydrin in air is associated with high levels of respiratory tract illness and hematological effects. Damage to the nasal passages, respiratory tract and kidneys have been observed in rodents exposed to epichlorohydrin by inhalation for acute or chronic duration. An increased incidence of tumors of the nasal cavity has been observed in rats exposed by inhalation. EPA has classified epichlorohydrin as a Group B2, probable human carcinogen."

"BPA is an endocrine disruptor. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) notes that BPA can imitate the body's hormones and interfere with the production of, response to, or action of natural hormones. For example, it can behave in a similar way to estrogen and other hormones in the human body."

Now comes the health issues related to 3D printing using FDM. While PLA (and PCL) are one of safest plastics to print with and are biodegradable, any 3D printing emits ultra-fine plastic particulate into the air (that's why I have constructed ventilated fumehood to do that at-home)
Some citation:
"UFPs are able to deposit in the lungs and airways of the head, where they can travel through the olfactory nerve to the brain, and studies have shown that UFPs may be an important part of the toxicity emitted from melting plastics. A number of studies have also shown that high UFP concentrations, such as from traffic pollution, are associated with adverse health effects, such as asthma, stroke and even decreased lifespan due to heart and lung disease"

But I don't want to have another 10 pages long discussion on health effects of different chemicals, vapors or fine particultes, because it will be very off-topic and we can create another thread for that.
With that being said and warning given, what individual people are going to do about it, who are working with the stuff, is entirely up to them.

I'm not saying resin cannot be handled properly, sure it can. I just want to keep my in-home hobby project, zero-risk, BPA-free, VOC-free, and if I would do that professionally (what I do not) in accordance with modern sustainable manufacturing practices/guidelines, but that is just my personal choice.

A lot of what you wrote I just breezed by because it's super Phyllis. But yeah, you should take precautions… Everybody takes their own type of precautions. When I looked around in my workplace and I saw one of the older guys cleaning aircraft parts in a bucket of jet fuel smoking a cigarette inside the shop. I thought it was kind of funky… Years later, I was doing the same thing myself. By the same token a lot of the sealant we used to waterproof hardware on clamps and attaching hardware, is a carcinogen. But even if you wear gloves, like some people did… It didn't stop you from rubbing your face… We had one guy, he was an electrician. He would work on the rotor head of an age 60, and he would come down and have sealant all over his face, in his teeth, in his hair. When everything you do is hazardous… Sometimes just taking a bullet is the best way out. When working in a dangerous environment, or when working with dangerous materials/chemicals. Each individual is responsible for their own "risk assessment". If you're working in an oxygen depleted confined space? And you have to takeoff your oxygen supplied mask to do a function… You either say "no man, I can't do it" Or you suck it up and hold your breath. (And jet fuel fumes are not kind to the eyes!) But if you don't do it somebody else will have to.
It's the job!
RKitty...I really wish Sinthetics would open back up!
And I agree with the Real Dolls probably has a ton of workers, but I'm pretty sure Sinthetics was only like a handful of folks working out of the garage.
I would love to get a Sinthetics! It's just my humble opinion that nobody cares about, but it seems to me everything real Dolls makes looks like a female orangutan.


John

[3dprinteddoll]

A lot of what you wrote I just breezed by because it's super Phyllis. But yeah, you should take precautions… Everybody takes their own type of precautions. When I looked around in my workplace and I saw one of the older guys cleaning aircraft parts in a bucket of jet fuel smoking a cigarette inside the shop. I thought it was kind of funky… Years later, I was doing the same thing myself. By the same token a lot of the sealant we used to waterproof hardware on clamps and attaching hardware, is a carcinogen. But even if you wear gloves, like some people did… It didn't stop you from rubbing your face… We had one guy, he was an electrician. He would work on the rotor head of an age 60, and he would come down and have sealant all over his face, in his teeth, in his hair. When everything you do is hazardous… Sometimes just taking a bullet is the best way out. When working in a dangerous environment, or when working with dangerous materials/chemicals. Each individual is responsible for their own "risk assessment". If you're working in an oxygen depleted confined space? And you have to takeoff your oxygen supplied mask to do a function… You either say "no man, I can't do it" Or you suck it up and hold your breath. (And jet fuel fumes are not kind to the eyes!) But if you don't do it somebody else will have to.
John

Oh I am sorry to hear. I don't know what to say, industry comes with a problems that people have created and some people are sometimes happen to be victims of that. Not everyone as I wrote before, some are either lucky, strong, or both, even if seriously exposed.
Anyway the good thing is that the industry is slowly changing, but it will take decades if not centuries, before automation will take all the risky jobs and we'll enter that cleaner post hydrocarbon economy. Maybe we will be also able to clean up all that millions of tons of plastic waste generated nowdays, with help of some miraculous tech that might come. Assuming there won't be any total wars or armageddon-like events in this century. Tech is always double-edge sword. Nothing will replace responsibility, whether that is on personal level or those in charge and on top.
My gf died age 23, on some rare autoimmune disease that occurs most frequently in a heavy polluted areas, only in industrialized countries. It is pity because she was real angel. And she was growing up in most polluted city in my country in late 90s, with lots of heavy industry and active mines around. Now the mines are almost all closed for good, and the industry is pretty much dead, but she is dead too. When she was only 12, her mother died of cancer. I am not saying the pollution was the only cause, maybe there was some genetic factor, that made her more prone... medicine does not really know and is often helpless.

Pardon me going off topic. I'll probably add some new stuff in coming weeks, I have some more molds on print schedule, but for now I'll be perfecting just body parts. When I'll have a good foot recipe and test all the ideas/approaches, choose some most promising, I'll move to hands, and then to one of most interesting and difficult parts, the bottom department I hope I will start working on the bottom department sometime in early 2022. I'll probably spend a lot of time in it I mean on it. Then will come the head, probably even more difficult to make properly, than the bottom department. I will also need to work on skeleton in meantime. Any whole doll casts I expect to be made by me not earlier than in late 2022 (but it might be later, 2022 is very optimistic). And this might be some first prototypes, not some production-level quality product.

[ADHERAQ777]

A lot of what you wrote I just breezed by because it's super Phyllis. But yeah, you should take precautions… Everybody takes their own type of precautions. When I looked around in my workplace and I saw one of the older guys cleaning aircraft parts in a bucket of jet fuel smoking a cigarette inside the shop. I thought it was kind of funky… Years later, I was doing the same thing myself. By the same token a lot of the sealant we used to waterproof hardware on clamps and attaching hardware, is a carcinogen. But even if you wear gloves, like some people did… It didn't stop you from rubbing your face… We had one guy, he was an electrician. He would work on the rotor head of an age 60, and he would come down and have sealant all over his face, in his teeth, in his hair. When everything you do is hazardous… Sometimes just taking a bullet is the best way out. When working in a dangerous environment, or when working with dangerous materials/chemicals. Each individual is responsible for their own "risk assessment". If you're working in an oxygen depleted confined space? And you have to takeoff your oxygen supplied mask to do a function… You either say "no man, I can't do it" Or you suck it up and hold your breath. (And jet fuel fumes are not kind to the eyes!) But if you don't do it somebody else will have to.
John

Oh I am sorry to hear. I don't know what to say, industry comes with a problems that people have created and some people are sometimes happen to be victims of that. Not everyone as I wrote before, some are either lucky, strong, or both, even if seriously exposed.
Anyway the good thing is that the industry is slowly changing, but it will take decades if not centuries, before automation will take all the risky jobs and we'll enter that cleaner post hydrocarbon economy. Maybe we will be also able to clean up all that millions of tons of plastic waste generated nowdays, with help of some miraculous tech that might come. Assuming there won't be any total wars or armageddon-like events in this century. Tech is always double-edge sword. Nothing will replace responsibility, whether that is on personal level or those in charge and on top.
My gf died age 23, on some rare autoimmune disease that occurs most frequently in a heavy polluted areas, only in industrialized countries. It is pity because she was real angel. And she was growing up in most polluted city in my country in late 90s, with lots of heavy industry and active mines around. Now the mines are almost all closed for good, and the industry is pretty much dead, but she is dead too. When she was only 12, her mother died of cancer. I am not saying the pollution was the only cause, maybe there was some genetic factor, that made her more prone... medicine does not really know and is often helpless.

Pardon me going off topic. I'll probably add some new stuff in coming weeks, I have some more molds on print schedule, but for now I'll be perfecting just body parts. When I'll have a good foot recipe and test all the ideas/approaches, choose some most promising, I'll move to hands, and then to one of most interesting and difficult parts, the bottom department I hope I will start working on the bottom department sometime in early 2022. I'll probably spend a lot of time in it I mean on it. Then will come the head, probably even more difficult to make properly, than the bottom department. I will also need to work on skeleton in meantime. Any whole doll casts I expect to be made by me not earlier than in late 2022 (but it might be later, 2022 is very optimistic). And this might be some first prototypes, not some production-level quality product.

I want too make a Doll, but sorry but make all thath is not possible, same with a Machine about 150 000e....

May be about 2030-2040 we will can Print Silicone. New Machina 2021 can do now, but price is about 50 000$....

Soo make Doll about 2022 is impossible.

I think the best way is make HEAD, we can do it with ABS, Asa, or Nylon, remenber PLA is easy to break, soo STOP use this, impossible to make head or other with that, because only one fall and Part will be break (tenacity in kj/m² unit).

Head will be HARD, but no problem for sexe... Just after put eyes print with resine or buy, conector for Body, and Make up, and it is Oki for a Head personal!

I works about it, I have now about 100 Heads on DAZ 3D ready.

[ADHERAQ777]

You wanted to know why PLA Woods, not good, this is the reason:

image_2021-09-13_053807.png (210.84 KiB) Viewed 580 times

PLA Standart very bad for mecahnical, only for make toys or decorations, but Woods PLA is very very more BAD.

[rubherkitty]

How to make a silicone doll. Basic overview.

Assuming you already have a open workshop and fabrication tools for fiberglass and metal work.
You will also need degassing chamber for silicone that will hold 5 gallon bucket.
---------------------------------------
Make a body model via 3D print, mannequin or clay.
Make fiberglass mold of doll body. Figure $500.00 for materials.
Make steel skeleton to fit mold. Figure $150.00 for steel and hardware.

You will need to glue foam to the skeleton or make a mold to cast the foam directly to the skeleton.
Leave 3/8" to 1/2" gap between foam and mold at a minimum.

Wire suspend skeleton in mold.
Mix, degass and pour silicone into mold. Figure $400.00 for silicone.
Let silicone cure, open mold and take out doll.

Same process for doll head if removable type. Mold may be silicone w/a fiberglass mother mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Can make first doll in 2 months if motivated.

[JohnnyTempest]

RKitty,
I don't think it's a motivation issue… More likely a money-vation issue.
Red Clay would be my choice, for the positive. I would say wax, but That would probably end in tears.


John

[rubherkitty]

If you have the shop space and tools, you can probably make your first doll for $5K.
Add another $5-10K if you have to buy tools.

[ADHERAQ777]

If you have the shop space and tools, you can probably make your first doll for $5K.
Add another $5-10K if you have to buy tools.

Exactly.

Why I tell him to just no wanted make all that.....

We can, yes, with 10 000$.... FInally new is about 1000$, and ocassion at 500$, so make new Dolls at 100% for 10 000$ noone want do that, just lost money.... And after many many problem, may be 5-10years for to have a Doll Oki.... Soo 10 000$ and many years for to have a Doll about 1000$ and better, why do make that? xD

But make a HEAD, yea, I think it is the futur for us, with ou Printer 3D, make HEAD as you want, may be Hands better,.... But NEVER Dolls 100% made, or may be with Printer Silicone in 2050 yea probably but not before.... xD

[3dprinteddoll]

10 000$ and many years for to have a Doll about 1000$ and better, why do make that? xD (...)D

Pour des raisons artistiques.

"Tout le monde savait que c'était impossible à faire. Puis un jour quelqu'un est arrivé, qui ne le savait pas, et il l'a fait."

[3dprinteddoll]

Anyway I am leaving this thread. There is no specific cause, it is just my thoughtful decision.

More fuzz is absolutely unnecessary at this very early phase of the project. I will continue to work on it. It was an interesting experience to share some stuff and get some nice comments.

I will continue to report on my weekly progress in my blog, that I starting to build, maybe later I'll provide some link.

Once I will have something really cool to show I might create a new thread, but I'm good for now, and I'll back to my work and focus on things that are important, that include dolls

Thank you for all your comments, visits and sharing your experience and ideas!

[JohnnyTempest]

ADH,
If you wish to be affective, provide examples, provide results! 3dP has done just that! Where are you are left lacking.
Personally, your stay here has been nothing short of combative.
Additionally, this is a global forum.
If you can't speak English, I suggest you invest in a translational program so that your thoughts can be more accurately heard.
While I believe you to be Knowledgeable,...knowledge is nothing, if you cannot transmit, or pass on that knowledge to others through communication.
This forum was created to benefit those of us with a common interest. Please let your words benefit us all!


John

[ADHERAQ777]

10 000$ and many years for to have a Doll about 1000$ and better, why do make that? xD (...)D

Pour des raisons artistiques.

"Tout le monde savait que c'était impossible à faire. Puis un jour quelqu'un est arrivé, qui ne le savait pas, et il l'a fait."

Yes it's True.

but genius make thing impossible....

Dream make impossible the result is = 0.

If you begin mechanical now, sorry but not hope make a VERY TOP DOLL in 1 years..... xD

Genius make impossible with MANY MANY works, all her Life was works : tesla, Devinci, PLATON,.....

Hope to make impossible with only 3 days of mechanical... Sorry man but that is Only DREAM....