Is Sanhui still active and in business?

[MANABU]

Something must really be up.... I've gone from vehemently defending them to genuinely concerned. I'm not judging when I say this but this behavior is not profit driven. I mean they have been absent here for so long. And your inquiry is not the only one reported here. Something significant must be going on behind the scenes.

[saindoux]

Fully agree with you manabu!
Sanhui disappeared from TDF, for some reasons read here and there!
But they do not answer on their official website, I do not understand!
Neither by email or chat on their site!

As you say: Something Significant must be Going on Behind The Scenes.

[Wight]

I can't speculate particularly about Sanhui, but generally the Chinese and Asian corporate culture differs significantly from us. It is vertical and authoritative. There a subordinate person can not intervene and correct his superior. Partly that occurred in the Japan Fukushima disaster.

Typical to Asia is that in their fierce competition between manufacturers, the companies silence all their internal problems from public, like failing subcontractors, production capacity, natural disasters, pandemics, transportation etc.

In unfortunate consumer cases they just resort to compartmentalize (mute) and be done with it. That puts their Western sales reps and vendors in complicated situations, looking powerless in regard to their superiors in China. I have read Mike saying several times: "Please be patient with us." I really hope Sanhui gets to the level they can be.

[MANABU]

generally the Chinese and Asian corporate culture differs significantly from us. It is vertical and authoritative. There a subordinate person can not intervene and correct his superior. Partly that occurred in the Japan Fukushima disaster.

Typical to Asia is that in their fierce competition between manufacturers, the companies silence all their internal problems from public, like failing subcontractors, production capacity, natural disasters, pandemics, transportation etc.

As it is the foundation and fabric of society and social hierarchy and authority. From students to family members. It's not like they can just change over night. Both a curse and blessing over the periods in history.

In unfortunate consumer cases they just resort to compartmentalize (mute) and be done with it. That puts their Western sales reps and vendors in complicated situations, looking powerless is regard to their superiors in China. I have read Mike saying several times: "Please be patient with us." I really hope Sanhui gets to the level they can be.

You are right about the "patient" quote. I remember Mike using that in our emails. It makes sense for him to use it preemptively. It makes me wonder if Chinese consumers are more docile like their Japanese Neighbors. I say docile instead of polite because Asia is westernizing....

I'm a bit bugged that everyone here has to suffer because of someones drama. Because like you say, Sanhui has so much potential.

[Wight]

I wouldn't say someone's drama. It is unequivocal that in Western market, companies must comply with Western consumer rights and practices, not the other way.

[MANABU]

I wouldn't say someone's drama. It is unequivocal that in Western market, companies must comply with Western consumer rights and practices, not the other way.

I understand. However the way it played out, the attention it attracted and the boulder that was formed from a snowball.

Imagine Some kid broke his own xbox. The kid takes it to Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart says take it to Microsoft. Microsoft says it's in Wal-Mart mart hands. So the kid goes on face book. He tells his friends and anyone who will listen. The friends create a page dedicated to this kids story. Now the mechanics of how this machine broke and its circumstances aren't even the story anymore. It's turned into help the kid. The kids the victim. REGARDLESS of the fact the kid didn't fully read fine print from Wal-Mart and Microsoft. Regardless of whether the kid is at fault or not for breaking the machine. None of that matters anymore because now, Wal-Mart is forced into the discussion, Microsoft is forced into the discussion and everyone is waiting grinding their teeth. Meanwhile the story is growing and attracting attention and opinions from strangers. Some are aware of the situation, some have never owned a video game machine ever. But everyone leaves a comment. Now, no matter what happens someone's going to take a hit in front of everyone. And one of the two companies has to cave in and acquiesce to this kid his small mob...At the CORE of this story is the kid not fully understanding the ins and outs of warranties and damage etc.

You can poke holes in that analogy all you want. It's more to paint a picture.

When I say "drama" I mean involving and attracting (inadvertently or not) so much attention from an audience.


Look, I WANT to be wrong here. It all sounds so un necessary. And it makes so much sense as to why Sanhui is gone.

[ZannyDanger]

MANABU, the reality is that in this case, when a customer receives faulty goods, Wal-Mart would have replaced the kid's X-Box on the spot per their warranty policy.

No matter what legal arrangements they have with Microsoft would then have been taken care of behind the scenes, without anyone having to fight or bicker to no end.
That's how western consumer rights come in anyway... and in the end, that kid wouldn't have been left to rot without a useable x-box he had already paid in full for nearly a year.

But in this case Wal-Mart is a mega-corporation, with tons of yearly allocated funds for such unavoidable things, not an individual entrepreneur.
These things happen, no matter what business you're in. It's unavoidable. However how a business chooses to handle such realities can make or break their reputation.
If the customer is entitled to a replacement then he is, and if he isn't then he isn't... end of story.

Anyway, in this Wal-Mart example, the takeaway is that after establishing that the customer is entitled to a replacement, he is then able to go home to enjoy the x-box he paid for. Customer is happy, satisfied.
He doesn't have to be dragged into an endless argument that ultimately drains him of all energy, and leaves him angry, anxious, and feeling wronged.

This is the difference... what happened here is the opposite. No matter who was in the right or in the wrong, the customer's interests weren't properly served.
No matter who should have been responsible to covering replacement costs, it's not any of the customer's business.
He just wants to go home with a working X-box, not be dragged into an endless argument for nearly a year of his life.

That's not what you spend your hard earned money for. When you spend your hard earned money, you want to buy peace of mind and a bit of happiness, not a bottomless pit of misery and frustration.
There's already more than enough of that going around as it is.

Sure, it's incredibly sad that this case probably ended up being the final nail in the coffin that killed Sanhui's interest in continuing to have a presence on the forum, and I do agree that is't very regrettable how everyone was quick to jump in on the bandwagon and condemn them, but truth is that there's always two or more sides to a story, and it's always wise to refrain from making assumptions when you don't have the full picture.
As far as we should be concerned, I think the rest should be for Wal-Mart and Mircosoft to figure out between themselves.




My 2c.



Not blaming either party here, this kind of discussion doesn't belong out in the open. Not any of our business and I wasn't privy to any of it during my tenure on staff.
Meanwhile this is just my personal opinion, and I'm just trying to point out the obvious... the customer's interests obviously should have been better served.

[MANABU]

MANABU, the reality is that in this case, when a customer receives faulty goods, Wal-Mart would have replaced the kid's X-Box on the spot per their warranty policy.

Not blaming either party here, this kind of discussion doesn't belong out in the open. Not any of our business and I wasn't privy to any of it during my tenure on staff.
Meanwhile this is just my personal opinion, and I'm just trying to point out the obvious... the customer's interests obviously should have been better served.

Agreed, and this is the last I'll say. Knowing when where and how to air your dirty laundry can go a far way. As we can all painfully see now.

I'm done

[ZannyDanger]

Agreed, and this is the last I'll say. Knowing when where and how to air your dirty laundry can go a far way. As we can all painfully see now.

I'm done

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.
For the record I don't have any dirty laundry, or have had any involvement in this case whatsoever, although I did follow it as a member, same as you did. I honestly don't know much more than you do.

So again, I agree with you... this kind of discussion doesn't belong out in the open.
Just felt like replying because you made it sound like the customer was to blame for everything. It's never that simple...


Just trying to be a neutral voice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MANABU]

My apologies, i meant no disrespect. In anyway. I think we are both in agreement. And you are right. Life is rarely that simple or the result of one person's actions. The airing of laundry thing was me lamenting that while the whole thing played out, none of the parties involved made substantial efforts to take it out of public view or calm the mob. And it grew into what it did.

Here I am

[ZannyDanger]

That we can agree on.

I love my SanHui dolls... they make one hell of a doll. They are works of art of exquisite craftsmanship.
I'm just as saddened as you are to see the turn that things have taken

[Pabzilla]

So I'm being attacked by someone who knows half a story... OK, before everyone here decides to lynch me please allow me to tell my story and then you can decide for yourselves whether or not to storm the castle with pitchforks and torches to kill the monster.

Firstly I want to say I love the Sanhui product and I want to see them succeed just as much as anyone, but as I am being attacked the only way to defend myself is to once again point out sanhui shortcomings so I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings, I really really never wanted to have to do this.

So is it my fault my dolls back snapped? No, absolutely not!! I am very gentle with my doll, there is no way I would ever be rough with her because she is the most valuable thing I own both in a monetary and emotional sense. I earn minimum wage, I struggle financially through life, a sanhui doll is around 2 years pay for me so of course I'm not going to treat her roughly.

Its not like mine was even an isolated incident, the following threads all existed before Shione broke
viewtopic.php?f=261&t=123453
viewtopic.php?f=261&t=117920&start=45
viewtopic.php?f=261&t=123284
And another two TDF members PM'd me telling me about their dolls breaking the same way, to me that shows a clear problem with the older ball joint skeleton.

I am accused by MANABU of not understanding the Sanhui warranty but that is not true as i had never seen the warranty, as i said above I'm financially poor, the only internet access I have is through a 3G mobile device that gets 2 bars of signal in my home so I have never been able to get the Sanhui website to load up so thus never saw a warranty, perhaps they should put them on paper in the box with the doll like any other product you buy.

The night Shione broke I panicked sure, and not knowing what else to do put up a post in Shione's thread asking members here what do I do.
I then ended up contacting both my vendor and Mike at Sanhui the following day asking for advice, bear in mind at this point i still did not know anything about a Sanhui warranty.

My vendor told me the doll should still be covered by the Sanhui 6 month warranty and it was a manufacturing fault so Sanhui should replace it.

Mike told me it was my vendors responsibility then said don't post anything about your doll being broken and we might be able to work something out.
I apologized to Mike saying i had already posted asking TDF members for advice and i had talked about how upset I was. I told him i would try to keep it quiet and would not post pictures of my broken doll or talk about what happened.

Perhaps if I had not posted here the night she broke i would have got help from Sanhu and then maybe not, but is this hush hush sweep it under the carpet nonsense really how things should be done? Is it really right to hide things like this? That seems very anti consumer to me.
And in the post I had made i said nothing derogatory about Sanhui or my doll but it felt to me I was punished for it.
I have never shared that bit of my communication with Mike here before as i did not want to make him look bad and in my opinion it does look bad.

After that i went quiet on my thread for 2 months only leaving the occassional message thanking well wishers for their sympathy and sticking to my word of not talking about Shione's injury or posting pictures. During those two months I heard nothing from either my vendor or Sanhui.

Then after two months of waiting my vendor emailed me saying Sanhui wanted to replace my doll with a doll that has a defect, I had a choice between two.
So im being told SANHUI wants to do this exchange.
Now lets be realistic here sanhui does not make dolls to stock, they make them to order, so these dolls with defects i was being offered as a replacement had to be made for someone elses order but then not sent out to fulfill that order, basically I'm being offered a reject, and I'm being expected to pay £150 for that reject plus shipping cost to replace my doll that broke during warranty, really is that something you would accept?? Plus these dolls are obviously not made with the options on them that i paid for on my original order and then i was likely going to need to pay for a new head because they were flexi skeleton dolls which have a different neck connector than mine.
So to replace my doll that broke during warranty I'm being offered a defective replacement with different options on it and being asked to pay money to get it.
Would you accept that??

I then broke my silence at that point and posted the offer i was being made to see if other TDF members thought that was fair and nobody though it was and things snowballed as i started posting updates on all the nonsense and holdups that followed, not knowing if i was getting help or not. From there and it ended up taking 5 months to get a replacement doll made and another three to receive it.

MANABU is placing all the blame for this on me but Sanhui had ample time sort shit out, hell Mike knew about my thread here and could easily have made a statement at any time or PM'd me but did not, so while my vendor and Sanhui bickered i was only getting one side of the story sure but like i said Sanhui could have made contact at any time but chose not to.
Again i repeat I still had not seen a Sanhui warranty and neither side seemed to want to take responsibility and only one party was talking to me. It ended up with TDF stepping in to help resolve things.
In the end my vendor paid the production cost of Shione's new body and he ended his relationship with Sanhui, however I noticed that he has added them back to his website just recently so I guess they have somehow reconciled their differences.

And through it all was i ever warned about my conduct by TDF? No. Because all I did was relay information I was being given.

Thats the story, judge for yourselves whether I'm the bad guy or not rather that just accepting MANABU's word on it. I'm not saying I'm blamless but pointing at me and saying everything is my fauly is garbage. And remember I'm shit broke most of the time, when I bought Shione that was practically all the money i had in the world i spent, its all about scale, imagine you bought something that cost practically every penny you had then it broke after 5 months and no fucker seemed to want to do anything about it, how would you react to that? With anger I'm guessing?

Do i wish i had done things differently? Sure, I wish i had asked TDF to mediate earlier than I did. Why did I not? I'm a little guy in life, I'm at the bottom of the heap, nobody ever helps guys like me because there is nothing to gain from it and in my scewed logic I didn't believe TDF would either, in my mind Sanhui were paying TDF advertising money so it made sense to me it would be a case of keeping them sweet and fuck the little guy, I am very very pleased to say it wasn't like that and I thank them for that so much.

As far as Sanhui goes, like i say I love their dolls and I wish them every success but with how I understand their warranty, if you buy from a vendor and something goes wrong the vendor has to pay for your replacement doll, what a fucking bunch of ill thoughtout bullshit that is.
I have worked in 8 different factory production environments since I left school, working in electronics, metal work, textiles and plastic moulding to name but a few and in all my years I have never heard of this fucking nonsense ever. Every single factory in have worked in has taken responsibility for all products that leave the floor. Product that went to a vendor/shop then to a customer who then returned it faulty to the shop/vendor would then bill or fine the factory for the defective product or send it back for mending or to be remade.
Hell a system like Sanhui has is potentially open to abuse. I'm not saying Sanhui would do this and I don't think they would but let's imagine a car manufacturer, a vehicle going straight to the customer would be made to tip top standards but then if it is going to a showroom dont bother, cut corners because if it goes wrong the showroom will have to buy the end customer a replacement car... This is absolute nonsense.
Now think about this, in the sale of a doll through a vendor who makes the lions share of the profit? It has to be the manufacturer, they would not work with vendors if they were not making most of the profit. So then when the doll goes wrong the vendor who has probably only made a small profit on the sale is then told he has to pay for a replacement... Like I said this is nonsense.

Oh and as for MANABU's little xbox analogy, when your xbox broke inside warranty you sent it to microsoft for repair or replacement, yes the MANUFACTURER dealt with the defective product not the vendor as it should be.

Now I'm pretty pissed at MANABU's very personal attack on me, he says "I'm a bit bugged that everyone here has to suffer because of someones drama."...... Yeah OK everyone is 'suffering' because of me, yeah i bring plague, famine and death wherever I fucking go.
I mean seriously, 'suffering'?? Really?? Even if you want to lay every bit of blame at my door for Sanhui being absent here all i have done is made your favorite brand of doll slightly harder to purchase, 'everyone is suffering'... Seriously I grew up getting beat up and humiliated every day, i was sexually molested by a guy who liked young boys in my first job after leaving school (i have honestly never told anyone about that before), I struggle to get by on minimum wage and I constantly battle mental illness but hey your 'suffering' because sanhui dont answer emails and its all my fucking fault.
MANABU I dont give two shits if you hate me, i honestly dont care if everyone hates me because nobody can hate me more than i hate me, but i take exception to this "I'm a bit bugged that everyone here has to suffer because of someones drama." Which is in my mind clearly just an attempt to get people thinking the same as you, blaming and hating me, but like i say if they all want to hate me go ahead but let them make up their own mind.

On another thing, where were you when shit was hitting the fan? You could have easily pulled me aside with a PM and chatted to me about how I was handling things but you didnt, I'm not an unreasonable person. Over the last year you have said nothing about me then as soon as I'm taking an extended timeout to deal with some stuff you attack me, comparing me to a child.

I may have made things awkward for Sanhui but i never intended for them to take their ball and go home, and my thread is not the only one that ever criticised them as i have already shown but I will admit mine cought fire but I never intended for that to happen and I'm sorry that it did. I'm not a perfect person, I'm impulsive, I dont think about concequences, I do everything unplanned even our thread stories, yes I make mistakes, if that makes me a bad person then fair enough.

I have tried to leave my incident behind, buried in the middle of Shione's giant thread and not mention it, but if the fanboys here want us out of the Sanhui forum Shione and I will go, start a fucking poll about that if you like I dont care, i will go if you want me to.

[MANABU]

Look, it's really hard to read that. First off.

As consumers it is our responsibility to fully educate ourselves regard our rights. This means reading and understanding warranties and company policies. It also means actively seeking them out and staying up to date on changes to policies. Not knowing because you "Didn't see" is not a valid argument in the modern world. This is even more important when purchasing obscure items from foreign markets.  This education saves money, damage, and time. It is common sense.

Second

The doll forum is not as official mediator. It is not a liaison, advocate, auditor, or adjudicator. It is a social networking tool and app used to link doll enthusiasts. The primary function of the forums is for its members is to share and seek advice regarding anything pertinent to dolls. If doll manufacturers start to see the forums and it's members as pulpit for disgruntled customers, then those manufacturers may chose to not participate in the shared discussions on the forums... If you are an informed doll owner, you should never need the forum and it's staff to mediate throughout your doll issues.

Third

Of course blaming you for everyone's problems is garbage. Just the statement itself sounds counter intuitive. And yet the circumstances speak for themselves. And they say to me that usually it's a bunch of things combined that lead to stuff like this not just one.

And no one is attacking you. Why do we live in a world where having a negative opinion about something is an attack? I have shown disappointment and disapproval, as well I have been civil and respectful. No one is attacking you.

Fourth
And that's where I come to the point I really want to make. The "drama".  You use words and descriptors like "monsters" and "lynchings" and refer this like there is a whole your side versus my side and who should be believed for some showdown ending In a poll. Even reading your original thread peppered with "fuck this" and "fuck that". You make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not being mean. I'm thinking if I was a sales rep or customer service agent. Reading your (statements)* is a chore. Here's an example: "If you buy from a vendor and something goes wrong the vendor has to pay for your replacement doll, what a fucking bunch of ill thoughtout bullshit that is".
*Edited for tone


""On another thing, where were you when shit was hitting the fan? You could have easily pulled me aside with a PM and chatted to me about how I was handling things but you didnt, I'm not an unreasonable person. Over the last year you have said nothing about me then as soon as I'm taking an extended timeout to deal with some stuff you attack me, comparing me to a child.""

Really, where would I start? It's not that you were being vocal, it's HOW you were being vocal.

Fifth
And yes I did say "suffering". Silence sucks. We had to find out about a new head released by sanhui today from a vendor. A VENDOR before the actual manufacturer. I wonder why?

I don't hate you. I don't BLAME you. Everything in life is connected. No one wants you to leave. Just please calm down. Not just with me but in general. Taking breaks and being silent doesn't help if you come back to the table swearing and swinging fists.

[ZannyDanger]

Allow me to chime in again, not in an attempt to take sides, but more in an attempt to provide a neutral voice once more.

The doll forum is not as official mediator. It is not a liaison, advocate, auditor, or adjudicator. It is a social networking tool and app used to link doll enthusiasts. The primary function of the forums is for its members is to share and seek advice regarding anything pertinent to dolls. If doll manufacturers start to see the forums and it's members as pulpit for disgruntled customers, then those manufacturers may chose to not participate in the shared discussions on the forums... If you are an informed doll owner, you should never need the forum and it's staff to mediate throughout your doll issues.

Thanks for reminding us

TDF at it's core, beyond being an online discussion forum, is also an online platform facilitating communication and online transactions between vetted sellers, manufacturers and buyers.
Being listed on TDF as a vendor or a manufacturer means going through a strict vetting process. In that way, even though transactions are not conducted on the forum itself, the forum still acts as a place of commerce, facilitating the process of making transactions by bringing all parties together to be able to communicate under the same roof.

It's also an online discussion forum where members and customers are able to share their experiences, for the greater benefit of others. Positive experiences are good, yes, but negative experiences also are often enlightening.
When a customer has an unpleasant experience, they are within their rights to share that with others. Silencing them can only deprive others from gaining invaluable knowledge that would helpful for them in their decision making.




And so blaming a customer for simply sharing their experience with others on the forum, kind of goes against this forum stands for. But it's more complicated than that... unfortunately when someone perceives themselves as being wronged, emotions tend to run hot. Customer service reps are well aware of this, believe me. Forum staff members, are also well aware of this. Not everyone manages to keep a cool head at all times. Usually this is when TDF may step in to help both parties obtain a favourable resolution, and also to prevent things from spinning out of control and damaging a business' reputation.
But this requires cooperation from all parties. In this case, Sanhui has been silent here for much longer than this individual customer's unfortunate experience. If you look back on older threads, if memory serves well they ceased posting using their official manufacturer account during 2018-2019.


Now I'm left wondering what the purpose of digging all this back up after so much time might be. If you'd like answers to what motivated SanHui to stop wanting to have a presence on the forum, perhaps you should ask them directly. If you'd like to have another side of the story, then perhaps you could also inquire at support@dollforum.com. Maybe they could tell you more, honestly many here wonder what happened exactly... myself included. Everyone here would like nothing more than to see SanHui succeed in the West. It's unfortunate that this one incident caught fire like it did. Meanwhile there are many other positive experiences on the SanHui forum, it would be good not to forget it. Meanwhile it doesn't make Pabzilla's experience any less valid. It's also good to point out that he did obtain a full replacement in the end, let's also not forget it. One bad customer experience really doesn't have to define the whole picture here.

"I'm not being mean. I'm thinking if I was a sales rep or customer service agent. Reading your hysterics is a chore. "

IMO, qualifying their retelling of what was basically a very unpleasant customer experience as "hysterics" constitutes a personal insult.
Besides, those who work as sales reps or customer service agents have seen worse, believe me. Dealing with such complaints is what they get paid for.

Also I'll be really honest here, your previous posts did come across to me as a personal attack towards Pabilla, if only indirectly. You may not have insulted them directly, but the comments you made were profoundly vexing and inconsiderate towards them, by attempting to dismiss the validity and veracity of the experience that they have shared on the forum.

Again, at any time these past few years, SanHui would have been more than welcome to post on the forum, reach out to staff, or members these past few years via pm. We would all have been happy to help and hear from them, but they have chosen not to. Until some time later they finally appointed Mike to oversee communications. IMO they are within they own right to want to operate their business as they see fit, but they shouldn't be surprised when members some on the forum to share their experiences with others. It's what a forum is for. Without this, TDF is just a marketplace... not a forum. Like EBay, Aliexpress, nothing more.



So to close this, I'd really like to encourage SanHui to open communication channels with TDF's owners, management and the forum's community again. We're all rooting for them to succeed.
Choosing to build a positive presence on the forum once more can only breed more positive consumer experiences. Word gets around, and their business would only stand to grow.
But as they no longer have an official presence on the forum, this seriously complicates things. Again, this has been going on for much longer than this individual customer's troubles with their one order, I'd like you to remember that before taking out your own anger and suffering on your fellow forum member. I'd just like to point out that continuing to bring this unfortunate incident back up and poking the hornet's nest so long after the fact can only make things worse for everyone involved. It's bad press, and it isn't what anyone wants.


A reputation can always be rebuilt, but it requires communication and cooperation from all parties involved.


As for this conversation, this is the last I'll post on the matter. I lead a busy life, and no longer wish to be an active member of this forum.
Yet I felt compelled to intervene here because I don't appreciate seeing a forum member's name being unjustly dragged in the mud and being the recipient of gratuitous insults and personal attacks for sharing their experience with others. It goes against everything that this forum stands for... or used to stand for anyway.
More than that, it's a matter of honor. And if this thread wasn't insightful and educating to the members of the forum, I'm pretty sure it would have been moderated already

[Nescio50]

Please, no personal attacks. Posts that were not meant to be an attack, could be interpreted that way. So please be thoughtful when posting.

If there are grievances, please try to solve them by PM, or ask TDF staff or management for help (Rule 6).

About TDF's position on mediation, please see viewtopic.php?f=80&t=131238.