Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

[Dees luver]

You can have a crappy camera and lighting but if you know how to pose a lady you can make a great pic regardless, just sayin

[I like blondes]

It depends on what you like.. your using an app to essentially photoshop. Its not the same as a straight out of the camera picture. Some of us don't like the photoshop look.

Photoshop? My lighting is 100% skill lol

All I do is change lip color, darken eye shadow, fix the part in her hair & add a vignette. All minor esthetics that has nothing to do with the composition the photo.

I take your reply as a compliment though, so thanks.

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[Ztar073]

And it looks altered. My point stands.

[I like blondes]

And it looks altered. My point stands.

& some people think my originals look altered lol, but it is what it is. Not my fault my doll looks that way & I know how to use proper lighting.

This post is about lighting & cameras, not make-up esthetics. Haters gonna hate.

[Ztar073]

No one thinks your originals are altered.
The reality is, if you did the hair and makeup yourself it would not look like your edited pictures. This is why even the best photographers here do all the makeup themselves. Edits have to be done with a very careful touch so people can't tell they are edited. I'm not hating on your stuff so I hope you won't take it that way. I am just being honest.

[I like blondes]

Here's one of my posts where someone else mentioned my use of photoshop. Read the replies.

https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=137806

I had one of my photos in a photography contest disqualified until I showed my original lol

I also had people ask me how I got my photos to look like they do because they use the same apps but don't get the same effect. I always have the same answer... it's the lighting.

I'm not here to make a doll look like a doll. I'm here to make a doll look as real as possible. & in my opinion, judging by the majority of posts on TDF & people I have engaged with, I do believe that's what the majority of doll owners want... for their dolls to look real.

But anyways, let's go further in the camera vs lighting discussion... these shots were taken with 3 different Nikon cameras:



People wouldn't be able to tell the camera difference in these model shots by just viewing it on the web. The lighting changes the mood of EVERYTHING.

I came from using a Nikon film camera, where we HAD to learn proper lighting because there was no such thing as photoshop back in the day.

Lighting is more important than camera. I'll wait for someone to prove me wrong.

[Tighes]

Lighting is the key. As long as the photo has good lighting, the camera doesn’t matter.
I do my shoots as complex as using my 1D camera with multiple lights and editing done in Lightroom to the opposite end of the scale of using my iPhone with natural lighting and editing on the phones photo app. It comes down to looking for a certain style and sometimes the phone is the best option. Sometimes I just can’t be assed to get the lights set up and shoot with them that’s why some of my shots are done with my phone.
Understanding light is the key. I’ve used expensive lighting equipment to light my scene, but there are some shoots that just involve one of my dolls and a window at home to get the light needed.
So, the main question here is, do you go camera first or lighting first. Neither would be the right answer until you understand how light works, not lighting, just light. I’ve even used a table lamp as my source light. It’s all about how you want your shot to look. You don’t have to be a photographer to do that.
Think about how you want the shot to look and you will figure out what will be best. I’m in no way ashamed, as a professional photographer, to say I use a phone for some shots, it’s all about convenience and what will give the best result.

Here’s a couple of examples of photos shot on iPhone and photos taken with multiple studio lights. Both shots have appeal and give a certain result, but in my mind, are equally as good as each other. Just a different approach to equipment.

So in my mind lighting is paramount over what camera is used.

Tighes

[Tighes]

You can have a crappy camera and lighting but if you know how to pose a lady you can make a great pic regardless, just sayin

You are absolutely correct DL. The camera is the tool to take what is in your head. Posing and lighting are key. I get told a lot how good my posing looks and makes the dolls look so lifelike. It’s all the posing and light. A simple tilt of a head or a hand placement can bring it all to life. I used to struggle with head placement with factory eyes until I got moveable eyes and it changed how I shoots dolls completely. Doll are hard to pose at the best of time, but with some subtle poses can make a huge difference. The camera plays no part of that process, only capture the setup made with the doll.

[MattUK]

Here's one of my posts where someone else mentioned my use of photoshop. Read the replies.

I went through the entire thread and can't find an example of anyone saying your original pictures are photoshopped.

Lighting is more important than camera. I'll wait for someone to prove me wrong.

I agree, but "lighting" and "buying lights" are not the same thing. I still put a good camera above lighting equipment.

[ChaXen]

I consider being nothing more than a beginner with photography. I do no enhancements of any kind. That said, I have learned that lighting is most critical. I also tend to shoot my pics with white backdrops. My first pic is shot with one 5000 lumen work light, using my cheap samsung exalt LTE flip phone.

The second pic is with the work light and assorted other lights using a ausdom webcam 12.0 mega pixels photo full HD 1080p. The third is the same, you can see the work light, but shot with a nikon coolpix b500.

[I like blondes]

I went through the entire thread and can't find an example of anyone saying your original pictures are photoshopped.

Where did I say that? The person who I am replying to said that you can tell the difference between my edits & non-edits, while people who have replied to my sample in the link posted said that they didn't notice much difference. Just pointing that out by telling him to look at the comments.

Once again, don't know why the subject changed to how my doll looks from lighting vs camera.

I would love for people who are giving me their 2 cents about my work to post some of their own photos for critique, with their crooked eyes & awkward poses lol

II agree, but "lighting" and "buying lights" are not the same thing. I still put a good camera above lighting equipment.

lol you create the lighting with the lights you buy.

I own 2 full frame Nikon DSLRs & have been shooting for 18 years. I own several lenses, all 1.8 & 1.4 primes. I also own 4 strobe lights & different sizes of soft boxes. Although I have semi-retired from shooting models, I have several magazine publications from my past that back my opinion.

& why do you think companies like WM Dolls use lighting to enhance their photos? It gets more sales. Do some companies use photoshop to make their dolls look more realistic? Yes, they do, but lighting is key.

Without correct lighting, photos will look dull & boring & add no life to the doll. You can take a great photo with the correct lighting equipment & a cheap camera, but you can't take a good photo with a good camera & horrible lighting conditions... well, unless you use photoshop or photo apps, which people seem to be against in this forum, but they still use them anyway.

I have used my cell phone for numerous web based photo gigs & I only use my DSLR when necessary. All my doll photos were all taken with my cell phone.

Anyways, my original suggestions were to the OP, but some people want to chime in & give me their 2 cents, which I didn't ask for lol. But since we're already here, anything else people want to add? I love having photography discussions.

[I like blondes]

Lighting is the key. As long as the photo has good lighting, the camera doesn’t matter.

+1

[I like blondes]

I have learned that lighting is most critical.

+2

[I like blondes]

Here's a photo I took with just a regular LED strip light through a window. Zero photoshop. Zero editing.

You can literally use ANYTHING for lighting. LED strip lights costs $10 on Amazon lol. A $5k camera can't produce this lighting.

Although this photo was taken with a DSLR camera, a cell phone can capture this photo with a tripod & timer or remote.



Here's a photo taken of my doll with my cell phone, hand held with a $60 LED wand held above her head. Zero photoshop. Zero editing.

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I'm kinda bored with regular lighting techniqies & playing around more with creative lighting. It's cheap & way more fun. Also, the image quality of cell phones have come a long way. I'm using a 4 year old Samsung Note 9.

[MattUK]

I went through the entire thread and can't find an example of anyone saying your original pictures are photoshopped.

Where did I say that? The person who I am replying to said that you can tell the difference between my edits & non-edits, while people who have replied to my sample in the link posted said that they didn't notice much difference. Just pointing that out by telling him to look at the comments.

Well you said "some people think my originals look altered". Ztar073 replied with "No one thinks your originals are altered". You then replied by linking to a thread and telling him to read the comments. I apologise if I misunderstood, but it does look like you were saying examples of people saying your originals look altered were to be found there.

lol you create the lighting with the lights you buy.

Well that's one way, but you can create lighting with any light source, or position your subject and camera to make best use of any light source that is already there. Yes lighting is kind of key, but that doesn't necessarily mean a photographic lighting kit must be used.

why do you think companies like WM Dolls use lighting to enhance their photos?

Quite a few of mandos' shoots are outdoor shoots using sunlight. Possibly reflectors were used too, but that's not always necessary. Once again, I'm not arguing that "lighting" isn't very important, just that this is not the same thing as saying "buy a lighting kit".

Anyways, my original suggestions were to the OP, but some people want to chime in & give me their 2 cents, which I didn't ask for lol.

HE asked for everyone's 2 cents. No-one's trying to win an argument or destroy you with facts and logic, but the whole point of the thread is to give our opinions and a diversity of opinions is surely useful to the OP. To read how people approach things and what they thing, so he can weigh it all up and make his own decision (even though it seems he already made it a while back, but hey ho). I would guess a lot of it is being directed to you personally because you're making black and white definitive statements, so people with alternate views are wanting to challenge that to give the other side.

Also you ARE kind of dominating the thread with your replies and examples, which is probably another reason why people are chiming in to give their 2 cents. You could maybe ask the mods to lock the thread so that only you can post in it if that would be more to your tastes?