Re: NOTICE to all members of TDF regarding counterfeit dolls

[Bianca]

I would answer your question with another question...

Would comparing a counterfeit bill with an authentic bill legitimize the counterfeit bill? Or would the the government's statement that is was counterfeit carry more weight?

Would showing factory pics of the actual doll received count as proof of genuineness?

I've received factory pics of EVERY SINGLE doll I've bought. I bought them all from the same vendor. I've also seen the backgrounds of my dolls in factories and the backgrounds are similar to other factory photos here on TDF (for example a permanent sign on a door and the framework surrounding it etc and other immutable displays etc.)

[Z-Dollman]

You don't have to be such a wiseass. Jeez.

[thegrimyeaper]

We've seen recent examples on here of people getting their factory pics of dolls that aren't even the dolls they ship out to the customer. Not to be a wiseass, but pictures don't seem to really prove much.

[leni_adopted_2019]

We've seen recent examples on here of people getting their factory pics of dolls that aren't even the dolls they ship out to the customer. Not to be a wiseass, but pictures don't seem to really prove much.

And it depends on the vendor. I never got factory pics, but a genuine WM Doll. Including support from WM here on TDF when my vendor was dragging his feet replacing the defect doll body (broken within two months after arrival).
What people also do not take into account buying a fake doll is that the material is of unknown origin. And potentially harmful. Besides that, it is almost an irony of history that Chinese companies are now complaining about intellectual property theft.

Mark

[dbenzguy]

I suggest you define the difference between a Counterfeit doll and a Replica (or Homage) version.

There is a HUGE difference between a doll that is being sold under false pretense and one that happens to 'look' similar to other dolls on the market.

Look to the luxury watch market for similar challenges... everyone mimics the 'look' of Rolex but the criminals make fake watches and sell them using the actual Rolex name.

[Nescio50]

I suggest you define the difference between a Counterfeit doll and a Replica (or Homage) version.

There is a HUGE difference between a doll that is being sold under false pretense and one that happens to 'look' similar to other dolls on the market.

Look to the luxury watch market for similar challenges... everyone mimics the 'look' of Rolex but the criminals make fake watches and sell them using the actual Rolex name.

If it's an authorised replica all is fine. If it's a looks-a-bit-like, that may also be okay as all try to replicate a perfect woman (or male).
But if it clearly is a copy of a design by someone else, it is theft of IPR. If also promotional images of the original doll are used without permission, it clearly isn't a homage.

[Bianca]

I suggest you define the difference between a Counterfeit doll and a Replica (or Homage) version.

There is a HUGE difference between a doll that is being sold under false pretense and one that happens to 'look' similar to other dolls on the market.

Look to the luxury watch market for similar challenges... everyone mimics the 'look' of Rolex but the criminals make fake watches and sell them using the actual Rolex name.

I think you answered your own question. Here are a few dictionary definitions...

mimic; to imitate or copy in action, speech, etc., often playfully or derisively. to imitate in a servile or unthinking way; ape. to be an imitation of; simulate; resemble closely.

replica; an exact copy or model of something, especially one on a smaller scale.

counterfeit; made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.

Many of the Rolex knock-offs are so close that they still violate intellectual property laws. Producing an unlicensed copy of a popular, successful selling doll and marketing it under any name is still violating Intellectual property rights and due to the popularity of the doll counterfeiters expect that buyers will assume it to be a brand name.

Replicas of items that still hold patent or copyright usually require licensing

TDF has a lengthy screening process for active manufacturers or vendors wishing to be here. This includes owner names and contact information and often copies of business registrations and other legal documents.

For the purpose of "He says, shes says" conflicts, TDF will consider the word of a verified and known party as stronger evidence than the word of an unknown, non-verified party. Therefore if a claim is made by a TDF manufacturer that a doll is a counterfeit and the existing photo evidence supports this, then the doll will be deemed to be a counterfeit unless proven otherwise by the purchaser and\or seller of the doll.

It is not a perfect system but has saved a lot of heartache for many would be bait and switch and other scam victims.

[Bianca]

You don't have to be such a wiseass. Jeez.

Sorry. Comes with my old age I just thought that comparisons are easier than explanations. No offense meant.

However after re-reading your second comment I see your point. However, a factory photo showing the doll in a manufacturing environment does not prove the item is not counterfeit. Backgrounds such as signs, etc could be fake as well. If it is an identical copy of a known manufacturer's doll they would need to produce legal documentation giving them permission to manufacturer and sell the copy.

As in a recent case, the buyer even stated which WM doll body and head his new doll looked like. So when WM Doll posted a complaint on the thread, there was little doubt in our minds. Then when we reviewed the member's posts we noticed even his introductory post seemed like a sales pitch for great savings in buying counterfeit dolls. So in a case like this we usually suspect the poster has an association with the counterfeiter.

Keep in mind TDF is not out to punish innocent buyers. If a member ends up being prohibited from posting his doll, he is a victim of the counterfeiter and not of TDF.

BTW, my dad used to call me a smartass. I could never understand if I was so smart why my marks were low in high school

[Z-Dollman]

Understood.

Given how paranoid I was when I got my first doll, I am 110% certain my doll are authentic. I was merely inquiring cause I feared a target since I didnt get my dolls from a TDF vendor. But you just addressed that, so Im good.

As for low marks in school, thats easy. When your in class, your seated on your ass so it cant really hear or see whats going on. This usually results in more dumbass, but only if they sit with ther thumbs up it. Sometimes a good class mooning can really even the field.

[Bianca]

Understood.

As for low marks in school...When your in class, your seated on your ass so it cant really hear or see whats going on. This usually results in more dumbass...

Aha, so I am not the only dumbass here No wait...that was a smartass statement

[haremlover]

Aha, so I am not the only dumbass here No wait...that was a smartass statement

Hmmm. . . . it appears that this thread is derailing into the thread about LHP in discussion about whether the position of such a part of the anatomy is north or south of where most manufacturers place it. The question is as to whether smart is north and dumb is south, or the reverse?

The bottom line however is that only a loser buys a fake.

Best wishes

Harem

[Bianca]

You know it would be nice if forums also had like buttons for posts. Sometimes you just want someone to know you read their post and agree with them.

1 like for 'haremlover' That said I believe that the bottom line for some is all they can afford and it won't be getting any better in the future as more jobs get replaced by robotics and technology.

However until the Chinese market hit, a low price on a solid life size love doll was $4000 USA. Now you can get one for as low as $1000.

Just shows that no matter how low prices go there will always be someone that would like to own one but can't afford it. I feel for these people. But buying counterfeit dolls whether legal or not is still crossing a moral line.

There, I think I am back on track

[haremlover]

I'd agree with much of the sentiments of this thread especially relating to affordability of really rather cheap dolls . . . until . . . Kimberdoll came along.

TDF approved, tested and recommended, Kimber has been a game-changer
viewforum.php?f=489
https://kimberdoll.com/
is an original design, good quality for the price and makes buying a fake unnecessary, unwise and destructive to the creativity of forward moving manufacturers.

TDF doesn't just approve expensive manufacturers and accreditation is a vote of confidence upon which people can place more reliance than going off to harpoon their catch in the wild -
viewtopic.php?f=489&t=128601


What's more, people can see the improvements that Kimber have made since first launching at TDF viewtopic.php?f=489&t=118859, taking notice of comments about standing, wrists and resulting longevity. A manufacturer such as this is to be encouraged and resourced rather than funds going to feed the fakers.

So buying a fake isn't a matter of crossing a moral line for those who don't care about such things - but even they might see it in the light of this post as crossing a line of common sense. Buying a Kimber rather than a fake is a no-brainer.

Best wishes

Harem

[EarthboundMisfit]

Hello, everyone!

I'm a newb still determining whether a doll is right for me or not. Just wanted to say I really appreciate this stance by TDF. As someone that has participated in many creative endeavors I have a special loathing for counterfeit products.

That being said, I'm glad the forum exists because it's very difficult for someone new to know where to look, who to trust, and what to get. I've seen advertised what I now understand to be counterfeits, and was tempted by them prior to knowing such. Guess it helps to be overly analytical and frugal(ish) because it landed me here.

[thegrimyeaper]

You know it would be nice if forums also had like buttons for posts. Sometimes you just want someone to know you read their post and agree with them.

I'm relatively new here and I still find myself looking for the "Like" button when I agree with a post.