Partners of sex doll owners?

[MattUK]

Personally I'm not seeing the wisdom. I'm not trying to be offensive, but if even a fellow doll-owner is going to assume there's some hidden pain and trauma behind an objection to being treated like I have a case to defend just for owning a doll, then I just take that as further evidence as to the dangers of even trying to address this topic with people who are bringing a bucket load of prejudices to the conversation to start with.

[Cameramike]

Just to add my 2 cents...with std’s at the highest rate in history do I want to get sick or die because I don’t know if having sex with someone is worth it. Are meth babies healthy? Just take a pill and you will be alright?

[kanna]

just pick any minority of your choice and imagine the response if someone came onto a forum specifically for them, giving them an "opportunity" to try and convince wider society that all the worst prejudices and slurs about them weren't true. How many of them do you think would jump at the chance, and how many of them do you think would tell them to take a hike in no uncertain terms? To take the former option is (to me) basically accepting that it's reasonable for people to have ridiculous prejudices against you, and that the onus is on you to change their minds. I don't accept that.

Many would act exactly as you said and that hostility would serve to further cement the prejudices against them. Being offended just isn't a strategy that will improve the situation in this kind of a situation. Such refusals will, unfortunately, cause many people to wonder what the minority is trying to hide by being so defensive and many will just take that as further reason to assume the worst about the minority in such a case. I do agree that it's unfair, but that's how it is and trying to protest that the wrong way will just make things even more unfair.

The question really is if you prefer to assume them to be your enemy and try to hide from them or perhaps fight them or if you'd prefer to take the chance at peace and understanding despite some risk by engaging with them and treating them like a friend. I prefer to pick the latter unless I see some really solid evidence that the person has come as an enemy and I see none of that here.

When you treat people like enemies when there's no real reason to do so, you make your life more miserable every time. When you do that, you give them a real, actual reason to consider you to be an enemy and that easily becomes the permanent relationship between you and that other person. The same is true between whole communities.

Personally I'm not seeing the wisdom. I'm not trying to be offensive, but if even a fellow doll-owner is going to assume there's some hidden pain and trauma behind an objection to being treated like I have a case to defend just for owning a doll, then I just take that as further evidence as to the dangers of even trying to address this topic with people who are bringing a bucket load of prejudices to the conversation to start with.

I probably should've taken that part to a PM. My apologies for not doing that. Anyway, I'll try to explain what that was about (not PM yet, because this might be of interest to someone else too and doesn't really venture into your personal territory).

Every single person has traumas during their life. It's not something to be ashamed of or something that makes you worth less. Yes, I've traumas as well. I used to be so full of them I could just barely get by. Now, many years after I first admitted to myself that I have actually have them, and thus actually started processing them, which reduces their effect, I can now easily afford to have multiple love dolls.

When you see someone being defensive, it's *always* because they're afraid of something. What you can't easily tell is what it is, exactly, that they're afraid of. If you'll notice, I made no assumption about what your fear is about. Just that there's something. As for why trauma... well, what else is there that can cause fear in an anonymous forum conversation? The point isn't to discredit what you're saying.

I'm really truly hoping to help you. If you'd prefer I stop, just say so and that will be the end of this conversation. We can also move this to PM if you want to continue.

[berthaBe]

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/so ... aig-harper

Thanks, but no thanks. And I sincerely hope no one here is taking you up on your offer before reading your other research.

Kindest Regards,
BB

[MattUK]

Many would act exactly as you said and that hostility would serve to further cement the prejudices against them. Being offended just isn't a strategy that will improve the situation in this kind of a situation. Such refusals will, unfortunately, cause many people to wonder what the minority is trying to hide by being so defensive and many will just take that as further reason to assume the worst about the minority in such a case. I do agree that it's unfair, but that's how it is and trying to protest that the wrong way will just make things even more unfair.

The question really is if you prefer to assume them to be your enemy and try to hide from them or perhaps fight them or if you'd prefer to take the chance at peace and understanding despite some risk by engaging with them and treating them like a friend. I prefer to pick the latter unless I see some really solid evidence that the person has come as an enemy and I see none of that here.

When you treat people like enemies when there's no real reason to do so, you make your life more miserable every time. When you do that, you give them a real, actual reason to consider you to be an enemy and that easily becomes the permanent relationship between you and that other person. The same is true between whole communities.

I don't see the need to pander to people who would have negative prejudices against me, or to try and persuade them otherwise, when I can just not engage. Like I said before, this is a private hobby anyway and I don't have angry villagers with pitchforks knocking on my door. When that happens I might have to side with people I don't particularly want to, but until then I'll just give them a wide berth.

I don't see these researchers as enemies or hostile, just as chock full of prejudices and clearly interested in exploring something (criminality and deviant sexual interests) that don't apply to me and I have no interest in.

When you see someone being defensive, it's *always* because they're afraid of something. What you can't easily tell is what it is, exactly, that they're afraid of. If you'll notice, I made no assumption about what your fear is about. Just that there's something. As for why trauma... well, what else is there that can cause fear in an anonymous forum conversation? The point isn't to discredit what you're saying.

First of all, I want to assure you that I can take this criticism civilly and I'm not about to blow my top over this. But having said that, that is just total BS I'm afraid. I've quite clearly explained what I see in their writings that I think indicates unwarranted prejudices, with examples that I think show this, and that I think it's reasonable to at least find this a little offensive, or at the very least not want to engage with it. Now you're just trying to pull the "no smoke without fire" card on me.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to act defensively when they feel attacked. This doesn't imply that the attack has merit, or that they fear the attack, or that they're riddle with personal trauma. I'm sorry, that's just nonsense. And as I said, if even you (a fellow doll owner) are saying such things, then surely that shows that I can't really expect any sort of charitable reception or to have my words taken at face value from people who aren't even doll owners, and are only interested in the subject as it pertains to sex offenders and assessing risk. Sorry, no, this is nonsense.

I'm really truly hoping to help you. If you'd prefer I stop, just say so and that will be the end of this conversation. We can also move this to PM if you want to continue.

As I said, I'm not taking offence at you saying these things, so I don't care if you stop and see no need to take it to PM, but you are being a bit of an armchair psychologist and you are basically talking nonsense here. I don't need any "help", I just don't want to engage with people who are demonstrating little to no understanding of what my situation actually is, in an attempt to convince them I'm not a danger. Sorry, no.

[rubherkitty]

They only want your wife's view on how perverted and sick you really are.

[Sp0ngeWorthy]

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/so ... aig-harper

Thanks, but no thanks. And I sincerely hope no one here is taking you up on your offer before reading your other research.

Kindest Regards,
BB

From that page "The first of these focuses on social attitudes towards marginalised sexual minority groups, and the experiences of these individuals in wider society. Examples of these groups include people who own sex/love dolls, and non-offending individuals who are attracted to children. In each of these cases, Craig's research seeks to understand the experiences and behaviours of these groups in a scientific way, and counteract some of the misrepresentations that are often present within media depictions of these individuals."

Hmm. Not sure that sounds really out of line does it? Did you see some other research that appeared to counter this claim?

[kanna]

I don't see the need to pander to people who would have negative prejudices against me, or to try and persuade them otherwise, when I can just not engage. Like I said before, this is a private hobby anyway and I don't have angry villagers with pitchforks knocking on my door. When that happens I might have to side with people I don't particularly want to, but until then I'll just give them a wide berth.

I tend to think of this as short-sighted, but very well, I'll just agree to disagree on this one. I've said everything I can think of.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to act defensively when they feel attacked.

If you'd said "It's perfectly reasonable for people to defend themselves when they're attacked" I'd agree. But in this form, I can't. The meaning is completely different.
I hope you'll give some thought to what it means to "feel attacked" and why you think it's different from fear.

[haremlover]

I mentioned this thread to Rebecca who is going to interview me on Friday. She responded:

Unfortunately no matter how much we try justify ourselves on there, people always have something negative to say back. I completely understand it though, I’m sure I would feel defensive too if a lifestyle choice of mine was continuously stigmatised in the media and society.

Last year one of my participants wrote a post about our interview after, highlighting how positive the experience was. It really helped. I think his username was (. . . . ).

This research began as my MSc thesis last year. I concluded that societies treatment of doll owners is more damaging than their lifestyle to society. I hope from that you can truly see our intention for the research. It’s being able to give doll owners a voice and creating evidence that will eventually be published to refute a lot of outrageous myths.

Those who want to be negative will find that life responds to them as negative. There are some doll owners who feel that they cannot relate to real people because they fear negativity from real people. As a result real people are negative towards them and it's a downwards spiral.

Bearing in mind that these are professional and qualified experienced professionals it may be that engaging and being interviewed might be a positive help to those who perceive much of life as negative.

Best wishes

Harem

[rubherkitty]

What group do you identify best with?

Cosplay / Sci-Fi
Robo / Drone Tech
Adult Doll Love
Cycling
Custom Cars

Criminal Tendencies
Pedophilia
Sex Doll Abuse
Murder
Anti Social segregation
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Why would a study about love doll prejudices need an interview of the doll owners spouse? Why would such a study need to be conducted by a organization that studies prejudices towards criminals. Is being a doll lover a legal or moral crime? Do you all keep a criminal attorney on retainer in case you decide to commit a crime today?

I would think a study would need an interview with Kathleen Richards and "anti love doll" law makers to see what THEIR problem is.

Would a criminal prejudice advocacy group interview members of the LGBT community w/a need for them to explain their behavior? Maybe the advocacy group should interview anti LGBT bigots and ask them about their ill will and criminal thoughts towards the LGBT community.
---------------------
I "doll owner" do not need the support or advocacy of a research group that represents or supports criminals as I do not fall into that category.

[MattUK]

I hope you'll give some thought to what it means to "feel attacked" and why you think it's different from fear.

Well I'd be more interested as to why you think they are the same thing. I don't really see why you would think they would be. If someone insults you and you respond, does that mean you were afraid? If you're not afraid, is the only response to just ignore it? Or go along with it because you don't fear it? I don't really get that I'm afraid.

[MattUK]

I mentioned this thread to Rebecca who is going to interview me on Friday. She responded:

Unfortunately no matter how much we try justify ourselves on there, people always have something negative to say back. I completely understand it though, I’m sure I would feel defensive too if a lifestyle choice of mine was continuously stigmatised in the media and society.

Last year one of my participants wrote a post about our interview after, highlighting how positive the experience was. It really helped. I think his username was (. . . . ).

This research began as my MSc thesis last year. I concluded that societies treatment of doll owners is more damaging than their lifestyle to society. I hope from that you can truly see our intention for the research. It’s being able to give doll owners a voice and creating evidence that will eventually be published to refute a lot of outrageous myths.

Those who want to be negative will find that life responds to them as negative. There are some doll owners who feel that they cannot relate to real people because they fear negativity from real people. As a result real people are negative towards them and it's a downwards spiral.

Bearing in mind that these are professional and qualified experienced professionals it may be that engaging and being interviewed might be a positive help to those who perceive much of life as negative.

Best wishes

Harem

Did she actually read anything of what I said, or was she just responding to a summary you gave to her? If she actually read anything I said then I can only say that "Unfortunately no matter how much we try justify ourselves on there, people always have something negative to say back" isn't much of a response to it.

It's not like I just said "I don't trust these people" and then ran off. I've picked out several key (to me) phrases and sentences that indicate a complete lack of understanding and false starting premises. And tried to explain why they come across that way. And I've also repeatedly said that I don't think these are untrustworthy people out to cause harm, I simply think they have some wrong notions. If that's the only response she has to say to any of that, basically just "haters gonna hate", then it doesn't sound like she's interested in addressing any of those concerns or taking anything on board.

But I hope you enjoy your interview and find it useful nonetheless.

[kanna]

Well I'd be more interested as to why you think they are the same thing. I don't really see why you would think they would be. If someone insults you and you respond, does that mean you were afraid? If you're not afraid, is the only response to just ignore it? Or go along with it because you don't fear it? I don't really get that I'm afraid.

Being afraid and feeling fear are different things. Being afraid is one possible response to fear. When I was learning to process my own trauma, the one skill that was crucial to learn was how to let myself feel the fear, that was strong enough to induce panic, without taking any action, mental or physical, with the intent to make the fear go away. Instead, I just observed the fear to learn what it was trying to tell me. I just allowed my curiosity to mingle with the fear and waited to see what I could learn. Would you say someone doing that is afraid? I wouldn't. But feeling fear? Most definitely.

Feeling fear is feeling like something is a threat. It's a bit harder to describe "being afraid" because I've never really had to put my finger on it before, but it's something more than merely feeling threatened. Perhaps it's just simply lack of confidence combined with the feeling of threat or wanting to flee or hide from the threat (or the fear itself).

When something happens that creates so much fear that the person cannot handle it and ends up trying to wall it off as a survival strategy, that is called trauma. As long as it's not processed, it might occasionally try to come out as a nightmare and certain events will act as triggers that threaten to bring it back to conscious awareness. This can result in all kinds of defensive, aggressive, avoidant and other kinds of behavior as the person unconsciously attempts to avoid having the fear resurface. For intelligent people, it also tends to lead to complex mental gymnastics with the sole purpose of creating a mental model of the world that mostly works while allowing avoidance of the trauma. Everyone experiences some trauma in their lives, because no-one is a master at handling fear when they're born. It's a skill that needs to be learned.

Anyway, the answer to your question is 'No'. That doesn't mean you were afraid. It doesn't even necessarily mean you felt fear either. That depends on how you responded to it.
If the response was defensive, aggressive or passive-aggressive, then yes, you felt fear (as in felt threatened), not necessarily afraid, though.

[haremlover]

And I've also repeatedly said that I don't think these are untrustworthy people out to cause harm, I simply think they have some wrong notions.

Then it's up to you to put them right.

Best wishes

Harem

[MattUK]

Then it's up to you to put them right.

It really isn't. Like rubherkitty said, it's not up to the gay guy to prove to the criminal investigation team that he's not a threat. Or at least it shouldn't be.