It's ironic, but later the same night that I reported Svetlana was fine, I was doing a rather simple test pose that I was going to photograph on my bed and post here. While I was posing her, I heard two pops similar to ones I had heard on the Svetlana I. I did some checking and her left hip came loose from its socket, and her spine has come loose from her pelvis.
Needless to say I was irritated.
I have done some exploratory surgery and am going to see if I can fix her without butchering her too badly. The question will be whether I can get her sealed back up well without some unsightly scars.
With the first Svetlana, she had a tumble down the stairs that started her problems. This Svetlana has been babied in comparison. There seem to be far too many complaints of dislocated hips and broken backs. Either we all are just too hard on these dolls or the joints just aren't durable enough. It seems like few folks have a doll more than 6 months without requiring major joint surgery. I don't think its all rough handling by us.
I have several days off over Christmas, so I will try to fix her that week. Wish me luck.
Svetlana II Irony
Moderator: TJ_Foxx
Good luck, Inuyasha. 
Take a look in my Doll Albums, both new and archived. I've done photo tutorials on both repairs.
Also, read my thread covering Pennie's hip repair.
http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?na ... ic&t=16718
A lot of details that didn't make it into the photo cations can be found there.
I'm suprized to hear of all these new breaks. They were supposed to go to a new, one piece hip joint after Penelope was manufactured. When I had her open for the hip repair, I went deep to locate and loosen her back joint. It's definately more robust than Phoebe's.
Don't forget to contact Abyss, you'll need their hip repair cement and a two part silicone repair kit for a good finish. And feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
If it's any condolence, now that I've repaired Pennie's hips and back, she's more of a joy than ever. Fun without worries!
Mahtek
Take a look in my Doll Albums, both new and archived. I've done photo tutorials on both repairs.
Also, read my thread covering Pennie's hip repair.
http://www.dollforum.com/modules.php?na ... ic&t=16718
A lot of details that didn't make it into the photo cations can be found there.
I'm suprized to hear of all these new breaks. They were supposed to go to a new, one piece hip joint after Penelope was manufactured. When I had her open for the hip repair, I went deep to locate and loosen her back joint. It's definately more robust than Phoebe's.
Don't forget to contact Abyss, you'll need their hip repair cement and a two part silicone repair kit for a good finish. And feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
If it's any condolence, now that I've repaired Pennie's hips and back, she's more of a joy than ever. Fun without worries!
Mahtek
All I ever wanted, all I ever needed is here, in my arms. Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm.
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Mechwizard
- Doll Elder
- Posts: 2015
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:00 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
My first thought when I saw the thread was "No, say it isn't so." Mahtek has the most expertise but my pic set for the hip may be useful for general info. However Svetlana's hip will be different.
http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/th ... album=1476
You may not have to make the cut as long as I did with Zara becaue Svetlana's backside isn't as big, but it needs to be long enough so that you don't cause accidental tears while you've got your hands inside her.
The most important part of the job I believe is the first cut. Nice, clean and straight will make it all much easier to close up once you have finished.
Both joints at once is just nasty. Irritated is stating it mildly. I would have been bouncing off the walls, and you are right, it's not rough handling.
Best of luck
http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/th ... album=1476
You may not have to make the cut as long as I did with Zara becaue Svetlana's backside isn't as big, but it needs to be long enough so that you don't cause accidental tears while you've got your hands inside her.
The most important part of the job I believe is the first cut. Nice, clean and straight will make it all much easier to close up once you have finished.
Both joints at once is just nasty.
Irritated is stating it mildly. I would have been bouncing off the walls, and you are right, it's not rough handling.Best of luck
It does make you realize how complex the human skeleton is and how difficult it is to replicate it with any durability within the bounds of reasonable cost and reasonable weight though. It's sad though that all these hips and backs especially seem to have problems, but I guess part of it is just that they get stressed the most due to the weight of the lower body tugging at them. It doesn't seem like much but even the act of hanging the dolls usually sends a pretty good shock through their skeleton as they suddenly decelerate once they are caught on their hook. There is just a lot of repetitive stress and strain put on them in the process of moving them around. The more you do it, the more likely I guess it is that something will pull loose. Still it is pretty annoying when it happens. They are kind of expensive to just stand up in the corner on a hook and not move them.
INYS...
Sorry to read about the double joint failure in your second doll. I, too, am surprised to see that these problems, requiring major repairs, are still happening.
In a human spine, the entire structure is surrounded by tendons that reinforce and hold everything together. If minor damage occurs from movement, the damaged tissues will slowly repair themselves. With a doll ALL of the stress is on the joints and there is no self-repair, only constant wear that, eventually, will result in failure.
I think a major cause of joint failures in dolls ultimately is due to the weight of the parts they must support. Hopefully, in the future, with lighter dolls and improved joints, the types of problems you and others have encountered will be permanetnly eliminated.
technoguy
Sorry to read about the double joint failure in your second doll. I, too, am surprised to see that these problems, requiring major repairs, are still happening.
In a human spine, the entire structure is surrounded by tendons that reinforce and hold everything together. If minor damage occurs from movement, the damaged tissues will slowly repair themselves. With a doll ALL of the stress is on the joints and there is no self-repair, only constant wear that, eventually, will result in failure.
I think a major cause of joint failures in dolls ultimately is due to the weight of the parts they must support. Hopefully, in the future, with lighter dolls and improved joints, the types of problems you and others have encountered will be permanetnly eliminated.
technoguy
I am NOT currently a doll owner.
They are kind of expensive to just stand up in the corner on a hook and not move them.
Indeed, Inuyasha....I'm sorry to hear of this happening to you again.
I think TG's theory is correct.
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Inuyasha,
Please contact Abyss before doing anything. This really sucks that you have paid for two dolls and to have them fail in such a short time though the first was dropped. Maybe they will send you another doll to replace the defective one because it has been such a short time plus they need to know that there is still a problem with the joints. Stacy had a doll that broke as well and I'm sure she didn't abuse the doll in any way the same as you.
Please call Abyss and tell us the outcome......we need to know that this defect is being corrected. You shouldn't end up with a scared doll when you paid so much in good faith.
Please contact Abyss before doing anything. This really sucks that you have paid for two dolls and to have them fail in such a short time though the first was dropped. Maybe they will send you another doll to replace the defective one because it has been such a short time plus they need to know that there is still a problem with the joints. Stacy had a doll that broke as well and I'm sure she didn't abuse the doll in any way the same as you.
Please call Abyss and tell us the outcome......we need to know that this defect is being corrected. You shouldn't end up with a scared doll when you paid so much in good faith.
I have some good news. Upon further examination it looks like Svetlana's hip may be okay. I think it just looked dislocated and sounded like it because of the broken connection between the spine a pelvis. I still may open her hip just to make sure since as long as she is in surgery for her spine, I might as well do it all at once. I may just leave the hip alone though depending on how the back surgery goes. If I have a hard time getting her sealed back up well, I may hold off on making any more incisions unless absolutely necessary.
Otherwise she is doing pretty good.
Otherwise she is doing pretty good.
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Mechwizard
- Doll Elder
- Posts: 2015
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:00 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
That is good news. If you don't have to operate on the hip then don't do it. Check it and if its fine then leave it alone.
I found the best way to check the hip joint was to lie her on her back.
First pull down on the leg and it should not stretch.
Then bend the leg at the knee and push the knee gently inwards. If the hip moves out then its broken, if not then all is good.
Mahtek said on a previous thread that its harder, and more prone to causing unwanted problems, if you try to operate on a good hip. Why try to force a hip apart just to fix it again?
I found the best way to check the hip joint was to lie her on her back.
First pull down on the leg and it should not stretch.
Then bend the leg at the knee and push the knee gently inwards. If the hip moves out then its broken, if not then all is good.
Mahtek said on a previous thread that its harder, and more prone to causing unwanted problems, if you try to operate on a good hip. Why try to force a hip apart just to fix it again?
Tottally unacceptable. Abyss needs to get some real engineers.
Am I to understand they are using basically the same sceleton for dolls that all weight differently? If so, that right there tells us they know jack and shit about engineering or don't care enough to engineer a durable sceleton.
These sceletons shouldn't be failing unless someone drops them down a flight of stair.
Cmon it's not rocket science.
This is one of the major reason I've put off ordering a RD.
I'll bet RD 2 sceletons fail at the same rate if they use the same set up.
So, sick of hearing about sceleton failures. It seems I hear about a sceleton failure on a new RD at least once a month.
ABYSS, FORGET ABOUT RD2 and all other improvements until you can engineer and test a scelEton that won't fail under normal use. Right now your dolls are very pretty and overly exspensive garbadge. This is rediculous, any other thing a person buys that costs 6K plus, you would expect a warranty of use and for it to not break while using it for the PURPOSES IT WAS INTENDED FOR!!!!!
Am I to understand they are using basically the same sceleton for dolls that all weight differently? If so, that right there tells us they know jack and shit about engineering or don't care enough to engineer a durable sceleton.
These sceletons shouldn't be failing unless someone drops them down a flight of stair.
Cmon it's not rocket science.
This is one of the major reason I've put off ordering a RD.
I'll bet RD 2 sceletons fail at the same rate if they use the same set up.
So, sick of hearing about sceleton failures. It seems I hear about a sceleton failure on a new RD at least once a month.
ABYSS, FORGET ABOUT RD2 and all other improvements until you can engineer and test a scelEton that won't fail under normal use. Right now your dolls are very pretty and overly exspensive garbadge. This is rediculous, any other thing a person buys that costs 6K plus, you would expect a warranty of use and for it to not break while using it for the PURPOSES IT WAS INTENDED FOR!!!!!
I'm going to second this. Even if they don't offer any help, at least they should know how prone their dolls are to breakage so future generations won't have to suffer. This sounds like a harder problem to fix, but it seems like some problems are easy to prevent (like putting dull bulbs on the finger wires to prevent them poking through the skin) and may just persist because Abyss doesn't get enough customer feedback.Bill wrote:Inuyasha,
Please contact Abyss before doing anything. This really sucks that you have paid for two dolls and to have them fail in such a short time though the first was dropped. Maybe they will send you another doll to replace the defective one because it has been such a short time plus they need to know that there is still a problem with the joints. Stacy had a doll that broke as well and I'm sure she didn't abuse the doll in any way the same as you.
Please call Abyss and tell us the outcome......we need to know that this defect is being corrected. You shouldn't end up with a scared doll when you paid so much in good faith.
It seems like the major problem with the hip joints is the tensioning system inside of the joint pin. That puts a lot of torsional force on the cement that bonds the plastic part of the pin to the cylindrical socket piece that attaches the leg to the pelvic bone piece when the doll's legs are posed in different positions.
If this problem is still happening with new dolls, then it's apparent that merely changing cements or plastics is not the answer. A pemanent solution will require an entirely NEW hip joint design. Obviously, this is an expensive change to make in a doll which is probably why it won't be done.
I suspect that, eventually, Abyss will do away completely with posable doll skeletons with the exception of the doll's neck. That is, I think we will see the "floppy" skeleton become "standard" in the not too distant future. Maybe posable dolls will still be made, but mainly for those into doll photography that might require such a doll.
Meanwhile, I am wondering if there are any companies out there that make a small x-ray machine for home use. It could come in handy when trying to decide whether or not your doll's posable joint has failed!
technoguy
If this problem is still happening with new dolls, then it's apparent that merely changing cements or plastics is not the answer. A pemanent solution will require an entirely NEW hip joint design. Obviously, this is an expensive change to make in a doll which is probably why it won't be done.
I suspect that, eventually, Abyss will do away completely with posable doll skeletons with the exception of the doll's neck. That is, I think we will see the "floppy" skeleton become "standard" in the not too distant future. Maybe posable dolls will still be made, but mainly for those into doll photography that might require such a doll.
Meanwhile, I am wondering if there are any companies out there that make a small x-ray machine for home use. It could come in handy when trying to decide whether or not your doll's posable joint has failed!
technoguy
I am NOT currently a doll owner.
It is insulting.
People start rockets in cosmos, and to make a doll with a reliable and strong skeleton cannot.
My RD is bought and received by me in august and I do not abuse a doll.
Practically all time a doll hangs at the stand.
Nevertheless, both hands of a doll in a wrist have very significant люфт.
I know that will soon be come to perform surgical operation to replace rivets.
I cannot send a doll through Pacific ocean back to California.
Similar that skeletons for RD are done(made) by the Chinese with curve hands and blind eyes.
On place Abyss to me it would be a shame as to the manufacturer.
We discuss here our problems, and representative Abyss will not deign to answer at all anything.
Probably neglects dialogue with clients.
Not that level.
People start rockets in cosmos, and to make a doll with a reliable and strong skeleton cannot.
My RD is bought and received by me in august and I do not abuse a doll.
Practically all time a doll hangs at the stand.
Nevertheless, both hands of a doll in a wrist have very significant люфт.
I know that will soon be come to perform surgical operation to replace rivets.
I cannot send a doll through Pacific ocean back to California.
Similar that skeletons for RD are done(made) by the Chinese with curve hands and blind eyes.
On place Abyss to me it would be a shame as to the manufacturer.
We discuss here our problems, and representative Abyss will not deign to answer at all anything.
Probably neglects dialogue with clients.
Not that level.
