Power to the dolloids ... Magnetically coupled resonance

[deusbot]

A recent test was able to transmit 60W's via magenetic resonance over several meters. Once "productized" it might provide enough power to run the animatronics of a dolloid in a room. Or you could make power hot spots in the home and use supercaps to have enough power to walk between them or surge capacity for extra special activities. Since it magnetic resonance its not electromagnetic radiation, and MRI's seem fairly safe and use really gi-normous fields densities its biological friendly. The press photo shows several people who worked on it standing between the transmitter/receiver pair with the light running.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/wireless-0607.html

May not be the ultimate solution but it would be the first step. Once you can get dolloids powered you break the primary reason for non-developement, no good powersource. Then once you start building things that use MCR both the technique gets better and cheaper but the demand for either super-super caps goes up, or the incentive for other power sources goes way up.

Either way, good news for the ultimate future for dolloids (and sooner than distant future later).

Also look for the keyword Witricity

[Siber]

Nothing new here. The Tesla coil can do the same thing. So can a crystal radio actually.

Its kind of hard to market this actually. If your house had a central set of coils to power everything, they'd be on all the time. Electric bill would be outrageous. It would be practical for wireless extension cords, places you don't have an outlet or something like that.

[deusbot]

Anything that's basic physics is of course 'nothing new' (but maybe a discovery to us). The new element is can it be productized, can it be put to use. One element of some of the Tesla systems were the use of the conductivity of the air. Another element would be that countinous power, which is something a resonance system could detect. If there is not something drawing power why transmit it? Their system only transfers power between the resonance points, so you dont waste it heating the walls (or yourself). And of course the effiency. Theirs has a high effiency which normal radiative methods (like the crystal radio) don't. [I remember seeing a circuit for a crystal radio powered radio which was kinda interesting.] Also its not simple magnetic coupling like in a transformer. Disney already has some patents for using transformes in the floor for animatronics. Basically the droid is programmed to step on the powered magnetic plates in the floor, and has a transformer coil in the foot/shoe. But I don't want to tear up the floor to embedd coils. Might void the apartment lease

And I was exactly thinking of the "wireless extension cords" model. A doll with a wireless extension cord is more natural than one using a wired one.

Better links and pointers to documents...
http://eprintweb.org/S/article/physics/0611063
http://www.justchromatography.com/general/witricity
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 19003.aspx

The simplest way to see if its really worth anything is to check back in 5 years

[Doll_Luvr]

Nothing new here. The Tesla coil can do the same thing.

Have a group of scientists ever sat between the two circuits of a Tesla device while it was operating? That's the point here, isn't it? Non-radiating, magnetically coupled. No line of sight required, safe to biologicals due to the weak interaction of the magnetic field with the surrounding environment.

"The fact that magnetic fields interact so weakly with biological organisms is also important for safety considerations,"

"WiTricity is rooted in such well-known laws of physics that it makes one wonder why no one thought of it before."

Nothing new in terms of physics... just a new application. That's where breakthroughs and leaps in technology often come from. Someone just happens to 'see' something in a different way.

~DL

[Keithallen]

Actually, magnetic fields DO react with biology over the long term.
Also, I noted that they used a 'magnetic field' in the Megahertz range - which means it is still basically electro-magnatism. MRI's and such are safe due to the fact they are short term. You'd have to be exposed to an MRI for YEARS before sufffering any ill effects. With one of these magnetic power sources, you would be.

[Doll_Luvr]

Nothing in the article says magnetic fields DON'T interact with biologicals. What they are saying is that the interaction is WEAK. That's why they are demonstrating it's safety by sitting in the middle of the device while it's transfering energy.

Of course it's electromagnetism. That's the most efficient way of generating a magnetic field. No electricity is passing through them, though, it's just the magnetic field. And if you think about it, we live inside a giant magnetic field our entire lives... the one generated by the earth itself.

If it can be proven safe for humans, it could be a huge benefit for something like robotics. As deusbot pointed out, one of the biggest obstacles often raised around here is 'power source.' The last paragraph in that article talks about the possibility of eliminating batteries in the same way we've eliminated phone wires.

If something like this could be developed and coupled with efficiency like the article pointed to by timetraveler1 in another thread...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 135307.htm

...it could make for some interesting development in home robots/dolls. Having a single power source that could wirelessly connect to any resonant device would allow that device to be mobile, within a certain range.

These guys may be on to something. It will be interesting to see how it develops.

~DL

[fantasy]

As was already stated, this is not a normal EM field. Power is transferred via non-radiative tunneling, which means you are not standing next to a 100 watt radio transmitter.

It is possible this type of power transmission will have few side effects, which is pretty cool. On the other hand, because this is a new thing, and it involves power transmission, it would not hurt to give it some time and let someone else be the guinea pig. Lots of new technologies start out promising great benefits with no risk, and then shit happens. After a few years, the good ones rise to the top and the bad ones start generating press.

[dachemist]

I don't know the exact workings of this system, but I think it would work only for short distances because magnetic fields decrease in power proportionally to the inverse cube of the distance, in plain english, if you had 100 watt at a given distance, and double that distance you only have 12.5 watt, so, either you set up your coil as to keep a uniform magnetic flow (from the ceiling, the floor or both) to your animatronic, which would mean a big instalation sucking lots of power to run a mid sized doll, or you have some way to direct the energy in a limelight like solution, which implies something like a MASER (microwave laser), which would need tunned directional antenae on the transmitter and the reciever, which means your doll would need a complicated possibly gyroscopically controlled antena on a gimball inside of her, and that is a hard spot that is at least as big as the wavelength of your transmitter...

what about running her on regenerative braking like systems, you push she charges, that would give you a somewhat lazy but wireless lover!

[fantasy]

Does the inverse square law apply here? My understanding is that the source in this case doesn't have standard behavior of radiating into three dimensions. The antennae for this setup is not directional. No need for gyroscopes.

[Inkling]

I have always thought that since inside the rib cage is useless (they do not breathe), this would be a good place to have about a 5 or 6-inch diameter battery in each (rib cage). The battery could be based on the same technology as the battery that is on the motherboard of computer systems.

I once suggested this type of battery technology used as a battery array to power electric cars, was called an idiot - and now, years later, two manufacturers are doing it.

A jack could be base of skull back of the neck. The hair covers it and one would never know it is there. That would provide recharging. Batteries on computer motherboards last at least 5 years with no recharge when the system is not it use. This is why I think it is a good power source.

I have been told this would be an expensive way of doing it. Almost everything is too expensive until it is mass produced, then they make money on volume.

[zazakell]

I have always thought that since inside the rib cage is useless (they do not breathe), this would be a good place to have about a 5 or 6-inch diameter battery in each (rib cage). The battery could be based on the same technology as the battery that is on the motherboard of computer systems.

I once suggested this type of battery technology used as a battery array to power electric cars, was called an idiot - and now, years later, two manufacturers are doing it.

Yes, I agree, the principal sounds fine but it took them many years to develop recharchable batteries, small enough and light enough to fit in the trunk of a car. The battery on your motherboard can be so small because your PC's Bios, motherboard, clock, doesn't need an awful lot of power on standby. If you look at laptops, I'm talking high end, with enough power for a high quality graphics card, ++, there are still major problems with weight and power efficiency.

If you're looking for a power source for an Andriod type Doll or one that uses electric motors, you come back to the same old problem of weight. I know, cause I use lots of different power sources for my Radio controlled Aircraft. A small starter motor to start the prop on a small internal combustion engine requires a rechargable 12v battery weighing several pounds. Electric motors are Amp hungry. I don't know how you can increase the power and decrease the size and weight of the battery at the same time.
Maybe a hybrid type system would be feasable. Small batteries for brief encounters of the sex kind, and mains power for recharging and kinetic energy.

[dachemist]

For what I understand from such systems, Inverse cube law applies, what you do is in a fashion similar to the following experiment, grab two well tunned guitars and place one infront of the other, then play a note on one and the other will vibrate the same cord, now, change sound to magnetics and use the same basic system, I thought of directional antenae because that would be a way to use 100% of the radiated energy, as when you (used) to align a "rabbit" antena for optimal tunning of a tv station.

On the other hand, rib cage bats seem to be ok, you wouldn't need the doll to work continously for more than two or three hours on a single stroke, then charge up and start all over again... there you could use the pillow as an inductive charger with a satisfactory efficiency.

You could increase power using some fancy rare earth magnet motors such as those that are in newer generation electric vehicles, or you could use your average motors and try Bender's solution, drink alcohol to burn in a microturbine or use in a fuell cell, the first option making your doll a really hot doll!