Sex toy design and materials

[MakerOfStuff]

So far these are my results from chemical and heat testing various materials, and looking for ways to repair the more expensive items...
Comparing softness...
The softest materials so far are the TPE from the Sticky toys which are about $1 for 1/10th lb, so $10/lb, melts aroud 290-310f, burns around 320F+...
The silicone products from Smooth-On: The best one seems to use the Dragon Skin with slacker, which is actually a tiny bit softer than the FleshLight material, and I think not porous, and tougher, but when I tested the Eco-Flex Shore 00-10 (very soft shoe gel insert) in the oven it held to 400F and only the bubbles deformed it to 450F, where it is rated for use, and it returned to normal after.

The Eco-Flex gel is probably a bit softer than the FleshLight, but tears really easy, and is as sticky as tape, so not really worth it.
I have not tried the Slacker with the eco-flex 00-10, which will probably be even softer than the Dragon skin with slacker sample I have. But I bet it will be the softest, just not as tough as the Dragon Skin with Slacker, and that was already softer than the Fleshlight material, so that is what I plan to use....

The Eco-Flex or just recycled latex (Dissolves in Turpentine, softened with Naphtha, held liquid in ammonia) or some other material for the outer sheath, so it will have a variety of pressures and contours..
While the inner/outer sheath will be less than 1/4 except for the bumps and other details, the texture, which for now will be Gel encased in Eco-Flex, or EcoFlex filled with the Thermo plastic sticky toys which are WAY more durable than the Gel, but I have to melt them in the ove.

When I get $30 for the Dragon Skin and $20 for the Slacker (That first actually), I can continue and make more.
It will have a variety of designs, which will be interchangeable, with pillow like holders, and a variety of ways to hide it to, so no one will know even when they are looking right at it.

FOR FIXING THEM... I have found that these Silicone based products (Two part mixes) are inhibited by all the elastic materials except their own sort of Platinum Cure Silicone materials (cured). Thats all these soft toys, all types of rubber gloves, rubber bands, etc., and I USUALLY can peel one off the other, but NOT if you clean the surface with the right thing, like the way PVC cement works...
Acetone and/or MEK dissolves ABS and PVC (#7 and #3) plastics, and welds them together.
Acetone also dissolves these TPE products, but does not melt them, only temperature does...SO...


I plan to take a variable dimmer switch which controls voltage smoothly, a soldering iron, and a thermometer which works accurately at the tip, to make an iron I can set to a particular temp, like 290-310F, and use that to literally melt/weld TPE materials together.
I am sure it will work. And when they over heat, they smoke, and become greasy, more sticky, with a residue, which goes away if you dissolve in acetone and remelt, or coat in Corn Starch.

So soon I will be able to make these with the best materials, so....(Next post, a question to you guys)...

[MakerOfStuff]

Following my previous post (Hope its there), on how to make these, and how to repair them, and which are the best materials...
QUESTION TO ALL OF YOU REGARDING MATERIALS...
I see there are a lot more products available now for guys, a lot more designs, and a lot of them are WAY cheaper than the $100/ea for a FleshLight, which is the softest material I am aware of, other than what I mentioned above (that I can actually get and make)....
SO, how many of these cheaper items under $50 or so are made of any material that is worth it (Referring to sleeves basically, inserts, etc.)?
BECAUSE...
I can buy the cheapest ones, with the best shape/design, and replicate it in any material, even the Smooth-On products like DragonSkin and EcoFlex10 with Slacker, which are the best and softest I know of (Room temp Silicone, 2-part mix. Cant recycle), or the Sticky toys at Walmart (TPE, 300F melt point, can recycle), all for around $10/lb of material.

I was planning to sell my products with Silicone outer cases so the lining (The part that wears down) can be set inside, cooked, and it will reform to its original shape!
So I plan to use silicone outer skins and TPE for the softer inner skin, then harder elastic materials for the structure, and soft pillow like material for the rest of the product...but each will be sold separate, interchangeable. Maybe in a few weeks if I am lucky I might be making these.

SO, THE ANSWER IF YOU WILL.... I am asking for you to fill me in on the less expensive toys available, with the better design as far as shape only, and inform us of the quality of materials...
And which are the cheapest ones with good shapes to duplicate with these higher quality materials, to save money?
(I think the FleshLight is 1lb for example, so I can make two for the $30 Trial kit of Dragon Skin or Eco Flex, and some of the $20 slacker additive...up to 10% by weight of what you are mixing, and that is actually better material, softer and tougher, and 'visco-elastic', so it springs back slower, more realistic!).

[MakerOfStuff]

Can anyone tell me how the Softness of this product, Meiki Real, compares to Flesh Light?
And how is the quality on this item?
This is the closest to the designs I am planning to produce, and has a price around $55.
Now I know I can get the TPE for $10/lb from Walmart Sticky Toys, and the Softest Silicone Products for about $15/lb (2lb test kits for $30, Eco-Flex Shore 00-10 or DragonSkin with Slacker, added 10% max by weight, $20 for 1lb)...
And those two were SOFTER than the FleshLight material (These are some of the materials I have).

So the question is, how does the material in that product compare?
[It looks like a little under one pound, like it would fit inside one of the 1lb containers with room to spare, so probably LESS than $10-$15 worth of material, to make a $55 product]

[MakerOfStuff]

PLEASE GUYS DO TELL ME, how does the FleshLight compare to Meiki Real as far as softness (Shore Hardness if anyone has that data), how far it stretches before breaking/tearing ("Elongation at Break"), maybe even the exact weight...
Tomorrow I am buying the "Slacker" additive to add to the Eco-Flex10, then I can compare to the Softest Silicone product I have found anywhere in the world so far, which is the DragonSkin+10%Slacker.

SO, tomorrow I will be ready to FINALLY Start making the first prototypes of my designs...
Where the outer skin and inner portion will be separate, and the inner portion can be one or two or three pieces, to change the texture, density, tension, etc...
And I plan to sell them (When I reach that point eventually) along with a Mold you can use to Reform the outer skin (And maybe the rest too), in the oven, when it starts to wear holes, tears, lose surface texture, etc.. (But you have to watch the temp and control it CAREFULLY, to KEEP between 290-310F. NO HIGHER).

If the test tomorrow is as soft or softer than the StickyToys, then it will be WAY softer than the FleshLight material, and if its also not too sticky, better in every way! (Currently Eco-Flex 10 is less tacky, but about as soft as a shoe insert, which is still a lot softer than the DragonSkin is before the Slacker additive, and that came out softer than the FleshLight).

So far I think that part may be made of tin, Stainless Steel once I get the facilities, and/or just #1 Plastic (PETE/PolyEthelyne Tetraphalate. What Microwave Dinner trays are made from, like tin, holds solid over 400F, where as these TPEs melt about 290-310F, and burn at about 320F!).

My designs are closest to the Meiki Real and the Meiki Plush Pillow like toy, but mine should be more modular and universal, more modifiable, with more options (LOTS of options I have thought up).

The Meiki Plush item seems WAY too expensive (Mine will be probably 1/10th that), and it seems hard to insert the Sleeve and to keep clean the sewn outer fabric. Mine will have different outer fabrics to choose from, which will be removable for cleaning with laundry, and the foam body should be one solid piece.

So far it looks like I can duplicate the Meiki for about $15 of material, which is about 1/3rd of its SALE price!
I plan to show you guys how to make all of these, leading up to me starting an actual company and eventually selling them, but ALSO still showing you how to make them.
The 2-part epoxy Silicone products from 'Smooth-On' I mentioned above are about $15/Lb and I can get Softer TPE from Walmart in their Sticky toys for $10/lb.
The DragonSkin sample I got is softer than the Fleshlight I have, by a little, and their Eco-Flex gel tears WAY too easy, and is sticky like tape....but if the Dragon skin is Shore A-10 (Or was it A-5 I think at the softest), whereas the Eco-Flex is two scales lower at 00-10 (the Gel is 000-35, about the equiv of 00-5 or 7 I think)...
SO...tomorrow, I will try the Eco-Flex with Slacker, and probably have the Best material in the world (As far as I can find so far)...
Stretches around 8x-10x (800-1000% elongation at break), handles up to 400-450F (I tested one, at 400F the bubbles in it deformed it, but it was fine after, and when I build a vacuum pump from PVC soon, I can fix that too). It is NOT porous like the TPE's from what I have read (BIG Bonus I think)...And it is immune to most chemicals I believe (Acetone breaks up the TPE to crumbs, but my test DID melt together again, back to orig. properties afterwards).

SO PLEASE GUYS, HELP ME OUT.. WHICH IS SOFTER: FleshLight, or Meiki Real (And by about how much)?
And which one stretches further without tearing?

My design for the pillow opens like a hot dog bun sort of, and holds together as tight as you want.
Now I'm using velcro, but I plan to make one with strings (Just like a ladies corset), so its quieter.
Basically you would keep the outer skin with the surface texture on the structural part (The cylinder shape), which will have different sized openings, oval or circular inner canal....
And the outer structural part can be just that simple shape, smooth, or it can have different shapes inside it, to add pressure points (Like the roof of a mouth sort of), and/or it can have different materials (with different softness), to create different pressures on the inner skin (more like real flesh, fat and muscle).

Then it will be easy to put in tiny Vibrators and/or heater elements....and I plan to make custom heater elements to maintain a precise body temp..

So if you guys will help me figure some of this out, I will keep posting here as I go, showing HOW to make these, of the best possible quality and for the absolute least money possible, and then when I finally can start selling them, I'll go through the steps they want here before advertising in this forum....
But only if I am getting help. Otherwise I will eventually quit sharing the progress here.

I also plan to work on a soldering iron where you can adjust the temp exactly right, so you can use it as an actual welder, for ThermoPlastic Elastomers like these.

[rubherkitty]

I've had fleshlights and a Japanese toy.
I also made a insert for a mannequin out of Eco 10 - no slacker.

I have found TPE toys much some than silicone.
The Japanese toy has held up much better than the fleshlight and doesn't require as much powdering to keep from getting sticky.
All my TPE toys have degraded over time and eventually thrown away.

I plan to make a new pussy insert for my doll out of silicone, but I will add slacker this time so hopefully softer.
The penetration tunnel of a silicone toy should be larger than a TPE toy if the silicone is firmer.

Cured TPE and silicone are not good together. I would not plan such a project.

[r363b]

I will help you on your venture with comments and suggestions.

Having purchased a Meiki Plush I know it's need for improvement. My mods are minor, but I have been able to successfully use the Fleshlight with a simple DIY case for easy insertion and removal for the Meiki plush doll. A custom insert to fit my DIY case would make it better. I will post pictures this weekend.

Also, if you can make a silicone insert as soft as the Fleshlight you will have a big seller. It will stop the mold issues and be more durable over TPE inserts. The world standard for inserts is the Fleshlight .. no need to compare to the Meiki Real as far as softness, besides very few people have nor want the Meiki Real insert if they can use a Fleshlight .. Especially if you can make a silicone replica of the Fleshlight.

Looking very much to your project .. keep posting updates.

[r363b]

Are you also going to make the Meiki Plush Doll https://www.toydemon.com/meiki-plush-doll .. or just inserts?

[MakerOfStuff]

THANK YOU GUYS...
1) TO: rubherkitty... What is the issue with TPE and Silicone? One thing I have noticed is that the various samples I have (Of all these materials) will bleed colors/dyes from one material into the other. The Clear/white Eco-Flex10 has a slight color where the TPE from the Walmart Sticky Toys sat for a day or more.
But is there another issue I need to know about? Like chemical degradation?

OH! Someone mentioned NOT using Alcohol on TPE, but I have been on the FleshLight for well over a year (its worn BAD! But I have successfully melt-reformed pieces, and plan to reform the whole thing!).
I WAS PLANNING TO DO THIS TEST: Put a piece of the FleshLight TPE into Alcohol (High %, not just 50%), and just let it sit for a long time, and observe any effect now and then. Then I can post those results. I'll see if I have the alcohol to do this tonight too.

2) Yes, the TPE CERTAINLY is softer than Silicone, but the DragonSkin with 10%(max) slacker is softer than fleshlight material, which is realistic enough I think, ESPECIALLY when I put it in the Foam and Micro-Fibre wrap I made (About the size of a small hip, or your skull).
I DID Just buy the Slacker, so today I will test the Eco-Flex10+10%Slacker and compare to the Sample of DragonSkin+10%Slacker which is the best material I ever saw for this! Its still tacky, maybe a little more then fleshlight material BUT....
THIS MATERIAL IS MORE SKIN-Like... Instead of just having the 'Elastic' property (Springs back instantly), it has 'ViscoElasticity', or 'Viscosity', so it comes back slower, like real skin!
It was designed this way, and all the other products I found around the world are MUCH harder.
Dragon skin is normally A-10, and Eco-Flex 00-10, so this test sample will probably be the softest Silicone you can possibly get, and probably around as tacky/sticky as the TPE from Gumball machine sticky toys.
I'll update asap.

OH, and THANK you guys for putting this in its own Topic. I was thinking about how we would do that.

[MakerOfStuff]

ANOTHER THING... Long ago I purchased several toys, one was a Hip, and three different FleshLights... The Hip was so hard it was useless. BIG WASTE OF MONEY.... The Fleshlight with bumps was WAY too much texture. I cut that one up for experiments.
>>>THE PinkLady NEEDED MODIFICATION... The seams between the lips and around the clitoris needed to be cut deeper, so it would function more realistically. THAT HELPED A LOT!
And I had to cut off the flaps on the outside, so I could put it in the Couch Cushion foam I cut to fit in the MicroFibre cloth (wrapped around outside, held together and tightened as desired with velcro), and put the Pool Foam on either side (Top and Bottom, cut to custom shapes/texture) to add more texture/varying pressure. I only tried using it IN the case ONCE. Then I figured all that out.

Now I plan to do this with it...
Make the mold to reform it in the oven...
Using Gelatin with Glycerine and Plaster of Paris, (Which I can recycle/reuse), and Liquid Latex as a masking agent, I plan to make a mold (Modified of course), probably out of Plaster of Paris or Tin (If I get some) or #1 Plastic (IF I can reform it with Xylene), then put the current worn out FleshLight in the mold, and hold it at 300-310F for around 10-20min or so, then it should reform to the exact shape and texture of its mold, and be BETTER than new (Because of the design improvements).
The problem with Fleshlights is they use simple CNC programs to make their inner textures, but I plan to hand craft it all, so its more natural (Close to perfectly symmetrical as one can tell by sight, but slightly different, like in real life).


SO NOW I STILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT... What is the issue with having TPE and Silicone materials together? (Other than dyes bleeding over into the other material).... Does Xylene Melt #1 Plastic in TV dinner trays so it can be reformed WITH orig. properties? (Thats the next test)...
How does Eco-Flex10 with 10% Slacker compare to DragonSkin with 10% Slacker (Which I already know IS better than FleshLight material, in several ways: Not porous, handles higher temp, probably more durable, certainly softer, and has 'viscoelasticity' instead of just 'elasticity', so it springs back slower, like real flesh)? Thats the current test...
And how sticky/tacky it is compared to the FleshLight and DragonSkin sample I have.

The Smooth-On Gel is RATED as the softest (000-35 Shore hardness), but does not seem better than fleshlight, and tears REALLY easy, and is REALLY Sticky, like tape (Unless you coat in Corn Starch, which always fixes that).

ALSO, I overheated the FleshLight TPE at 320F, it smoked, became greasy an stickier....UNTIL I coated it in corn starch.
AND, when I dissolved it with Acetone (It does not liquefy, only breaks to crumbs), then remelted it, it DID return to orig. properties.

[rubherkitty]

I think the oils in TPE will degrade silicone.

[MakerOfStuff]

Ok, you said the Oils in TPE will degrade silicone....
I dont think so. What evidence do you have for this?
So far here is what I know...
As I said, the dyes DO bleed over between the silicone and tpe samples (From the TPE into other TPE and into the Silicone, which is clear/white. I have not purchased pigments yet, which are VERY expensive btw. So you use TINY amounts of it I guess).
MORE IMPORTANTLY... I DID try melting these TPE Sticky hand toys on top of a Cured Eco-Flex 10 pad, which is basically a pad of bumps (made using tiny sphere candies set on wax, then I poured the eco flex on top, and cut the flashing, which I would not have needed if I pushed them in harder I think).
It did NOT melt down into the cavities very well (made a bumpy pad, but of irregular sizes. So a failure pretty much), it DID leave an oily residue on the Silicone.
I was melting that at 300-310F or so, and in this test I think I DID go over a bit, and it did smoke a little, but not too much. The TPE was not greasy after, like the FleshLight TPE sample I over cooked in the first tests, then repaired with Corn starch.
But this is the same pad I heated to over 400F (I think I went close to 450F. I have notes I wrote and need to post online), and that is the point where the bubbles made it engorge/inflate, but it went back to its original shape and properties after. Its rated for USE up to 450F.
Also, I have been using pads of TPE from the Sticky toys I bought from walmart ($1 for 0.1lb of material), which I melted on Cookie Trays, to make the Sleeve thicker, and make up for the fact it has holes worn in it (One as big as my thumb now). It still works, but its not nearly as good as it used to. Its old.
Thats one of the best things about Silicone, is that its impervious to lots of chemicals (I have not learned which ones yet, btw, will harm/dissolve it). The material/molecule is PolySiloxane (Created with an Arc Furnace, to make the Silicone and Oxygen chain, which is covered in the same Hydrogen-carbon-oxygen (Hydrocarbons and carbo-hydrates) which make most or all the other plastics, oils, etc.). ....
This looks like the answer here....
"The solvents used were isopropylalcohol (IPA) and xylene. Two commercially available silicone digesting solutions" electroiq.com/blog/2007/08/solutions-and-solvents-for-removing-silicone-a-practical-guide/

Those seem the only things which will dissolve the Silicone, but I am surprised Alcohol is on that list.
I guess I will try soaking a piece of that and the TPE materials in some high purity Iso. Alcohol and see what happens over several hours, days, etc..

[MakerOfStuff]

Oh, wait, I did not finish reading it...
"As hypothesized, the solvents did not dissolve or break down the siloxane bonds.
IPA did not produce delamination between the silicone and substrate within 24 hours in these test conditions, where as xylene showed slightly better performance on aluminum." IPA=Isopropyl Alcohol, which did NOT separate the Silicone from the other material.
"The silicone emulsifiers evaluated ranked from most to least effective in dissolving silicone within the shortest time as follows: D3 > D2 > D1 (Figure 2). "
Those it says have secret/proprietary active ingredients, so we dont get to know.

So only Xylene caused silicone to sever from the metal, and only the special digesting chemicals dissolved the silicone material. Seems Alcohol did nothing... WITHIN 24hrs! (That seems as long as they let the tests go).

ALSO, from Wikipedia...
"The use of silicones in electronics is not without problems, however. Silicones are relatively expensive and can be attacked by solvents. Silicone easily migrates as either a liquid or vapor onto other components."

What an awesome material huh!? Its because of the nature of silicone having 4 of 8 outer electrons, in the outer shell, half full, just like Carbon, which makes it the best balance between stable and reactive with other elements....which correlates to the strongest molecules. Thats WHY (I think) Silicone based molecules are immune to so many other organic chemicals (The organic part generally seems to infer a soft, flexible, sticky sort of molecule, which bonds easily to others, through Hydrogen-Oxygen bonds mostly, and has flexible bonds which can break and reconnect readily).
Once I learn 'Functional Groups' (62 chemical types as I recall so far), I will be WAY better at this.
I plan to make all my own materials, and engineer them myself, in the future.
But silicone/polysiloxane is one I cant likely make at home. Needs an arc furnace (HIGH temp).

[MakerOfStuff]

I BOUGHT THE SLACKER, and was Wrong about the amount...(Have to correct prev. posts)... NOT 10% max! Thats the 'Thinner' (To pour easier, fill small spaces, less bubbles). You can add up to 2x the amount of Slacker, as Silicone...
https://www.smooth-on.com/tb/files/Slac ... utator.pdf

https://www.smooth-on.com/tb/files/DRAG ... IES_TB.pdf
https://www.smooth-on.com/tb/files/ECOF ... IES_TB.pdf
https://www.smooth-on.com/tb/files/ECOFLEX_0035_TB.pdf

So that changes my math...
At $30/2Lb kit for the Silicone... $20/1Lb for Slacker...
Thats $15/Lb for Silicone, + $20/Lb for slacker...
If I want max Slacker, thats 1:2 ratio, or 2/3rds of Slacker, 1/3rd of Silicone...
So 1Lb of material here, would cost...
1/3 x $15=$5
+
2/3 x $20=$13.33
So 1Lb of the softest Silicone you can buy anywhere in the world (As far as I've found, softer than most or all the Sex Toys I've seen so far), costs $18.33.

I just googled, and it seems the FleshLight actually weighs more like 1.25 or 1.6lbs, but I think it will fit in one of the 1Lb Silicone containers with room to spare.
http://www.inbedmagazine.com/fleshlight ... on-review/
https://www.amazon.com/Fleshlight-Origi ... B0026P3P7M

This one says less than the others, but all say above a pound (Maybe those incl the case weight?)...
http://www.fleshking.net/fleshlight-rev ... flight.php

So I probably am looking at more close to $30-$40 in material actually to make the Larger item I planned, possibly.
That changes the math pretty significantly, unfortunately.
It gets a little cheaper, maybe 2/3rds the price, if I buy larger orders.

[samara78]

Mineral oils(which tpe is made from) will cause the silicone to become brittle and crack. Silicone and tpe, to my knowledge at least cannot cure in the presence of one another. And will even, in some cases, tpe causes rapid degradation of certain silicone blends it will also cause your tpe shrink.

[MakerOfStuff]

To Samara 78: Can you provide any sources of evidence for those claims?
So far my tests and research say that Mineral Oils will not affect the Silicone, and so far I have kept them together for many days, and they have not seemed to affect one-another beyond the Dyes bleeding over.
And see my post above, on solvents for Silicone (Seems ONLY special 'digesting' chemicals will do it).
And remember that I cooked some TPE on a silicone pad, and they left oil residue on the silicone, but they cleaned off, and the silicone (EcoFlex 10) seems fine.

CORRECT that TPE and ALL Elastic Materials (Other than the same Platinum Cure Silicone as far as I have tested) WILL inhibit the curing of Silicone Resin/Epoxy (DiMethylSiloxane, plus additives, is the actual chemical/molecule, btw. Higher molecular weight/longer molecules makes softer materials, and thicker liquid-like state, or less difference between liquid and cured solid states. This stuff is already so thick bubbles just sit there, hence the need for a vacuum pump to remove them while curing).
I tried three types of rubber gloves, incl, vinyl, and ALL of them inhibited the silicone.
Even the clay I bought which says no sulfur, still does, probably because sulfur leached into it from something it sat next to (As the lady at Reynolds Advanced Materials said, and I think is correct).

Thats why I bought some Hard Sculpey Clay, and plan to buy some that I can actually melt and pour, then demold from Gelatin, work it by hand and with tools, then pour silicone around that to make the mold I can melt or pour other materials into.

NOTE: You REALLY need a metal injector you can heat up, perhaps with a coiled tube with oil through it, or just submerged in a pot and cooked up to the right temp, then inject into a mold. I plan to make some plastic and metal injectors for these projects soon, and a heater coil with a higher temp oil (Look up charts, it should go above 500F, max oven temp, before reaching 'smoke point'), which runs through a copper pipe (Just found one), with electronic thermometer(s) regulating the electric heater element (probably a soldering iron element, and a small Electronic Light Dimmer, which is pricey, as the Voltage Regulator, or I may buy a kit for that)...
So I can make a metal injector, which maintains a specific heat, up to well above what I need, because just using gravity and heat in the oven does not work well enough to make these THICK/VERY Viscous melted TPE materials form into the small details of molds.

The problem is that even in their liquid state they are so viscous, because the molecules are HUGE, to create these properties.
So this is unavoidable, either room temp 2-part mixes need to be degassed with a vacuum pump while curing...
Or you have to force the melted materials in with pressure and heat.