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Sex toy design and materials

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MakerOfStuff
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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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r363b wrote: ...
For the dolls without inserts .. I think female condoms are used by some doll owners. If your "liners" are very, very thin 1/32" or 1/8" and soft and super stretchy you might have a product that someone would want. Also your tooling would require a closed end for the liner.

http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... le+condoms+

http://dangerouslilly.com/sex-toy-revie ... intenance/
"A note on using a condom with a sex toy: Make sure to buy non-lubricated condoms, or condoms that specifically say that they use water-based lube. Most condoms that are lubricated use a silicone lube, and it is usually a cheap one. These will most likely have a reaction with a silicone toy. For silicone or hard materials, you can use a latex condom if you don’t have latex allergies. For porous materials it is probably best to use polyurethane condoms – many porous materials (TPE, TPR) have oil in the material as a softener, and oil is not compatible with latex!"
THANKS FOR THAT. I was thinking about making special condoms, using the Liquid Latex I bought (Less than $10/lb), but the catch is how it bonds to itself when cured, SO...
Either I test using corn starch and then washing it off (soap, water, and scrubbing it hard), and THEN, after it dries, see if it still bonds to itself (Which ruins it)...OR...
I can look up that how to video again, how condoms are made, and I think they are cooked at 150F for a while, which might remove the stickiness.

REGARDING THIN LAYERS OF SILICONE: You can see in my videos I posted recently, when I stretch and tear a thin layer of DragonSkin (Shore A-10), and you can see its pretty strong, probably strong enough, but certainly easier to tear than Latex.
The advantage is that latex is elastic, but these can be made Visco-Elastic, which means it reacts slower, less springy, more like real flesh.
So I think the feel will still be better, and I THINK it will still be strong enough (Esp. since it stretches at least 4x when softened, up to 8-10x for DragonSkin or EcoFlex silicone without adding Slacker to soften it).

THE FIRST MODEL I PLAN TO MAKE, will likely have several thin layers, of first 1:1 DragonSkin+Slacker, maybe a little more, and then maybe a softer layer, and then harder layers, with the last outer one being normal dragonskin.


MY SITUATION: But now it looks like my two friends who were helping me cannot anymore, so now I have chosen to use what money I just got from panhandling, to buy a large back pack, and try to see if I can actually make these Gelatin Molds and pour the silicone, outside! All I need is a cheap oil lantern to melt the gelatin (Either the surface to smooth it, the tools to alter it, and/or some steel cans to melt it so I can pour it around a form, to make a mold, to duplicate something. Those metal tins have to be cone shaped a bit so they fit into each other, and so I can more easily remove solidified gelatin/silicone from it).
Since its already cold outside (I need the fridge or freezer to cool and speed up solidifying gelatin), I guess I could go work at the side of the Rio Salado, inside a tent, and then I have what I need to continue work.
Then I can still get internet through my cell phone (I specifically bought the cheapest phone and service, at walmart, which has 'Hot Spot', so I have internet anywhere), and I can still take photos and video with that...
So I can still make these and sell them, even living outside!

Maybe that is the reason why this is happening. The point here is to SHOW people how to do such things. So I HAVE to do them myself, whether I like it or not.

So I can go to a shelter to sleep in a bed at night, and then I can go out to wherever there is water, and pitch my tent and sit and work (Except for the busy times at the highway exit where I need to panhandle).

Now that I figured that out, I might still be able to pull this off in a week or two from now, hopefully, and THEN I should be able to afford to pay rent and get myself a place, and hire help, and build the business by the end of the month (I HOPE).

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r363b
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Re: Sex toy design and materials

Post by r363b »

I would think you would be wasting your time with latex liners .. people are buying female condoms for a dollar local with out having to pay shipping cost, unless you can make them for a penny and then I do not think people would want to pay shipping.

A very thin Silicone liner has an advantage in my opinion .. because of softness and texture and durablity.

All you need is a negative of the outer vaginal shape (apply Bondo over your clay model) with a 1" or larger threaded rod attached .. now stipple your silicone layers onto the negative Bondo mold/rod and after silicone cures remove and you are done, just package and sell. Keep all your silicone layers to a max total of 1/32" or 1/8" thickness.

Bondo .. https://www.walmart.com/ip/17056863?wml ... 3=&veh=sem

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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UPDATE: Considering the difficulties I've had lately I figured out how to simplify the process down to what I can actually do outside, near some water, with a fire, camping. Screw it I figure, this is the best way for me to make enough money to get a business going the fastest, so this is what I will focus on...
But I also did a price to weight comparison, or wrote down the #s so far, for several gel shoe inserts of various weights and bike seats and handles, and looked at many other products which were too cheap to compete with like foldable cups and bowls and kitchen utensils. I'll post those #s when I finish that.

I figured I can use a cheap $2 Dog bowl with the flat bottom that has an upward dent in the middle to catch heat, and the lip around the edge to be held by thick wires, which I can get from whats left behind after the political signs are picked up or blown away.
I can use the Oil candle I got from a dollar store as the flame which wont carbonize the gelatin when I use it to CAREFULLY smoothen the surface, and heat the tools (steel acorn nuts/bolt caps, bent wires, pocket knife)....
And since I will be outside, it will be like the Fridge and solidify the gelatin faster, by the creek or canal, where I can make a tiny fire, and suspend the dog bowl, and boil water.

I could get a filter to make the water 'potable' (Drinkable, like a brita or something), but its nott worth it. Too easy to get clean water at any convenience store for free. Just need the heat, and water clean enough to wash hands in, and constantly replace, without putting anything toxic back into the water (Just safe soap).

So I can melt the Gelatin in cans from the tea I drink, with the tops cut off so I can use a stick to scrape all the gelatin or silicone out (I could use these as the disposable mixing cups too, rinsed out cups. This stuff cant be washed off, btw). I'd set those cans with the gelatin inside them in the boiled water (maybe get a thermometer to control its temp, and a folding metal set up to hold the bowl and protect the flame from wind), and then Pour them into the Plastic containers which contain the outside perimeter of the molds.

I can pour the melted gelatin on top of and into whatever I need. When its inside of something I think it should have strong rods through the center, so where ever the long piece of gelatin pulls apart, you can line them back up and put them back together.
These 'registration pins' should be put where you are molding multipart molds, between any parts.
I plan three parts, the inner shaft with textures, the outer face (About 1in thick, 3in diameter), and the outer mold (Different diameters, and maybe angles where it connects to the face piece).

The trick to making gelatin not bond is keeping the solid part cold enough to stay solid, and not melt from the heat of the liquefied gelatin being poured in. And corn starch seems to help a little, unless it does melt which seems to make the powder coat irrelevant, they bond then. So I freeze the one and try to let the heat settle and even out to just warm enough on the liquid one, THEN pull the one out of the freezer and pour and put it immediately back in the freezer, BUT...
You cant leave fresh gelatin in the freezer too long at once because it will ruin it somewhat with ice crystals.

But gelatin is reusable, and you can pour the silicone into it, and you can make the gelatin mold seamless, and single use, and just keep making new molds off a solid prototype (Or always unique ones!).

REGARDING THE CUSTOM CONDOMS:
The Liquid latex is less than $10 for a 16oz/1lb container!
Thats probably 1,000 condoms! At least well over 100 I would think. Excellent profit margin, and thats buying at Walmarts halloween makeup price.
It seems exactly the same as other condoms, but I can control the thickness I am pretty sure (I did some testing) by adding ammonia or carefully letting it dry or just coating more than once....and as I recall using 150f to bake it cures and vulcanizes faster...
But I need to check if I tested washing corn starch off it, and if it bonded to itself again so bad I could not peal them apart without deforming it, like fresh latex is.
So I can make it any shape and thickness, and coat it in corn starch, and do that even without a home to work in, but vulcanizing would be harder without a real oven and baking thermometer (Which I have from prev. tests). I could rig that but I plan to have a place soon.
Probably Gel inserts for shoes and cell phone cases, custom, and these items, will have the best profit margins, and I will keep showing everyone else how to do the same.

I can make thin layers of soft on one side and harder on the other side. I saw that all the ones I am using are a little to WAY softer than the softest Latex material I could find, and the Shore A10 down to maybe the 00-10 or 00-30 Silicone might have been as strong or stronger than the softest latex I could find data for (in a recent post).


Another catch is aligning the outside and inside of a mold for silicone, which is why you make the gelatin with minimum water (spray it on and dust the gelatin powder in thin layers, just enough water), and then add the glycerin (lots. Figure out how much. maybe as much as there is gelatin or more. Not sure exactly yet). More glyc. makes it more stretchy, more water makes it softer and easier to tear.
And use those guide rods through the mold area where you pour, which you can pull out of the mold halves before you remove, and slide back through to assemble the mold just right before you pour again.
And then you can pour a thin layer of watered down, warm gelatin through the mold to smooth all surface texture and make it seamless, and cool that, then pour in the silicone, and if you have another part to push into the mold, it should be aligned by such a rod through the gelatin parts somehow.


With this I can use this dog bowl, oil lamp (tin, for camping), some thick wire, a camp fire, river water if I must (any water), and cold air (outside if I must. Gelatin melts at room temp, but I think glycerin raises the melt temp. not sure how much yet)....
And I can pour in the silicone or hard plastics, which I have found I just have to buy from Smooth-On if I want to make the best products (That company really seems the best by far, so far), for around $10-20/lb (More like 11 to 16 for the silicone I need, 19/lb when I soften it to the max). And I can pour most of them I think into the gelatin molds just fine.

Also there is the need to enclose the gelatin when pouring around something you are duplicating, for which I am just using plastic bottles of various diameters, which I can cut and tape to whatever diameter or length for each step, and then either press down into clay or pour a thin layer of gelatin into first to get a seal, then fill.

I figured I need a tray for that, either way to be safe, so a cookie tray should work.
I also have used the plastic coughing syrup dosing syringe (type with no needle) to just put a line of liquid gelatin (hot) along the outer edge to seal it before cooling in the fridge, then filling with the rest of the warm gelatin and cooling that fast in the fridge.

And use the harder materials to make the prototypes (So I can get durable yet rigid forms to make the gelatin molds from).
I would then make the Gelatin molds with a face piece, a center shaft part, and the outer mold portion, each interchangeable, with a variety of designs.
I would do this with the Shoe inserts and cell phone cases, bike seats, handle grips, and whatever else I can think of too.



So I need the dog bowl and some tin cans from tea/beer/etc. with the tops cut off, to melt the gelatin...
And these plastic bottles (The sides, cut to straight cylinders, and cut once length wise, then taped to the right diameter. Its hard to remove if not cut and retaped, once solidified), which will contain the gelatin while pouring around other objects, and the Materials from SmoothOn for $10-20/lb, and the gelatin which I can re-use (And maybe plaster of paris too, which can be reused if you cook around 300f), which I think is about $13/lb...
And that is about all one needs I think to make pretty much anything.

And the tools to add texture are sticks with steel acorn nuts (Bolt caps) on them, of various diameters, so I can make smooth bumps and ridges in the gelatin, by heating them with the oil flame which wont carbonize them, or set them in the boiling water which is better, and cool the gelatin, and when its right, pour in the silicone or hard plastic, whatever, and tear the gelatin apart or melt it back off except cool the last thick layer left, then peel it off. That and maybe a pocket knife, tweezers, shaped wires to make symmetrical contours on prototypes, etc..


So now my goal is to manage this as quickly as possible, make some things this way and sell them, get rent money, and start a successful business, starting as a homeless beggar camping outside. I think that will be the ultimate demonstration, so I'm just letting this happen for a little bit. Got a new backpack with todays money and the things I need, and throwing away what wont in that and the duffel, then doing this. I can even sell them from anywhere with the cheap cell phone from Walmart which has 'Hot Spot'.

(Sorry its so long, I just cant fix them now. Not enough time).

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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I should note that the cost of labor is one of or the biggest cost, after materials in this case, so the cost per unit and the profit percentage are the bigger concerns for this first project, and so little items which take time to dry/cure I cant really do at first, but only later when I can afford several molds to keep running in a chain/continuous production line.

Inserts so far are the best by far, to get me into a place to live, with the 7 lbs or so of material I already have, and to having a booming business, the soonest, I think. So thats still the plan.

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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UPDATE: It looks like I might be settled in a new place next month, a couple weeks away, and be able to work on this project again, and maybe even before then, since I reduced it to just what I need.

THE MINIMUM I need for this project, is a few pounds of the Gelatin with Glycerin (Probably about a pound of Glyc and around 3lbs of gelatin. Total guess though), and then the One or Two Platinum Cure Silicone Products I plan to use (DragonSkin for now, the Slow Cure, Shore A10. Also I might use EcoFlex Shore 00-10 for an outer coat, and a Foam fill, silicone or polyurethane possibly), and the Slacker additive I am using to soften these Silicone Rubbers.
Also I might go get the Liquid Latex (16oz) Bottle and flat container (Like Tupperware but cheaper, plastic, threaded lid) which I use to dip items in liquid latex or catch the liquid that drips off when coating them.
That way I can make the custom shaped condoms. The catch there is I still am not sure if just coating them in corn starch is enough to prevent them from bonding to itself after the corn starch is washed off. If it does bond still, I have to look into baking them at 150f for a certain time (Dont remember how long) to vulcanize them, as I learned from how condoms are made videos.
Then the Tools I need:
So wooden dowels to mix these very thick (viscous) liquids (thick and strong enough sticks. You must scrape the sides of the mixing containers, which must be disposable, so you need plenty of them too.)...
Some steel 'acorn nuts' (smooth round bold cap/ends), on the end of wood sticks/dowels or bolts (Wood wont burn your fingers)...
The camping oil lantern, a tiny can of oil or alcohol with a wick, which burns clean so it wont carbonize the tools when you heat them, or the prototype when you melt the surface to smooth its texture (Then cool it in the fridge possibly)...
...
And since I might have to work on this outside (not sure yet how things will go), I bought a Steel dog bowl, a large one, so I can use wires to hold it up over a small fire, heat water, and melt the gelatin in cans (tea cans with tops cut off so I can scrape the sides when mixing), then I can pour it over the object to duplicate, which can set atop some clay, so...
Clay, is another tool/material I need to keep with me. For making prototype shapes (to duplicate with gelatin, then mold with silicone, or plaster or hard plastic to save for later use), and for sealing the container to pour the liquid gelatin or silicone into.

So I can set the item to duplicate atop clay, then press some plastic from plastic bottles around it to contain the liquid gelatin (or silicone)...
or I can use a flat tray like one of the three cookie trays (In a set) which I bought for this, and just pour a little gelatin into the plastic outer cylinder (which will contain the gelatin I pour around the item to duplicate), let it harden (faster in the freezer, but dont let it ice up), then Set the item to duplicate on that, melt the gelatin that went outside the plastic cylinder/container, and pour back inside of it.

So I also need the plastic, which I can cut from flat side plastic bottles of various sizes, into a flat cylinder, with one cut through it so I can change its diameter, and then tape the inner and/or outer edges so it stays, and so gelatin will not also leak out through the side (As well as the bottom, which should not happen after I let that first bottom layer harden and seal up the bottom).

I think its better to pour gelatin in first, then set the item on that, then pour half way up and wait a bit before cooling so it melts the lower layer and bonds, then coat in corn starch and freeze, then cover with more gelatin and cool it quickly so this layer wont melt and bond to the lower, to make a two part mold.

When using the clay to seal the container, you get the molded part with a hole where your item was touching the clay, which is usually less desirable.
Thats why I have also used these syringes (The ones without needles) to put a line of hot gelatin along the outside of the plastic cylinder to seal it to a plate/tray, then poured in the gelatin, to get a smooth and flat bottom, which becomes the face when you flip it to pour into it. This is for a one piece mold.

So I could do without the clay if I am not using it to make prototypes from scratch, and just have the tools, silicone, slacker, and things for fire and boiling water, and still do this project (Even camping outside).

I hope all that makes sense.
This way its just three bottles of Smooth-On products, one Freezer Bag with some clay (only if making prototypes from scratch), a small hand full of tools, then the Steel bowl (or maybe pound cake pan) to boil water in, and then tin cans and plastic bottles to melt and pour gelatin into for making molds. Oh, and the oil/alcohol flame to heat tools and melt the gelatin directly, without carbonizing (like Bic lighters do).

Thats pretty much all I need to make these things, now its just a matter of having time and space to do this.
I have to focus on making money however possible these next two weeks, so this might end up waiting till next month now, but I am still trying to work on this too. It just depends on what happens to me next I guess. I may be getting a job before I have a place to work on this business, or I might manage to make and sell some of these things before that happens and not need to.
Time will tell.

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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COST OF OTHER PRODUCTS, like Gel Shoe Inserts, Bike Handles, Bike Seat Covers...
Compared to the $10-$15 I have to spend on materials (more like $11 for these harder DragonSkin silicones), most of the shoe inserts were about twice that price per pound, or a little more, but one generic brand was slightly less than this material cost. The bike handles also were twice the price of material or more.

Now, I DID find PolyOne company which has Shore A-3 and A-14 I think it was, TPE rubber, for under $4/lb, min. $160 order (about 40-44lbs).
So at .54lbs and just about $5, it would then cost me less than 1/2 to make that, BUT...
...but that is TPE, which means I need to heat it up to 300f, precisely (only +/- about 5-10degrees max or it wont melt, or burns), and the cheapest way I figured to do that, is to make a syringe that fits in a caulk gun, out of metal like copper tube and cap, and set it in oil, which is heated on the stove top to 300f, and measured with a thermometer dipped in it (And stir the oil to make the temp consistent before checking, and while heating the material).
It would be better if you can make one of glass though (Maybe just a glass tube, with plunger in one end, nozzle on the other somehow). That way you can see through, because...
...with this method you have to fill with tiny hard plastic pellets, then heat and melt them, and the trick here, is getting rid of the air bubbles, which is harder obviously if you cant see them.

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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ANOTHER NEW IDEA...
I was thinking about a way to heat these, and combining several ideas together here...
I plan now to make a smooth hard plastic container, which is the mold form that the sleeve is formed from, except it is hollow, with a screw on cap on the outside, so you can insert your sleeve into it (And it inserts into the center of the sleeve too, at the same time. Best it be lubricated for this task obviously), and fill it with hot water to warm it up.

ALSO, that will be useful to make your own models, as you can simply pour the Silicone into it (Using Pure Alcohol and Dish Soap mixture as a 'masking agent' so silicone wont bond to the plastic. But I plan to use a plastic it wont bond to anyways. I think acrylic is the material they recommend for this, which silicones wont bond to. They being the Local Reynolds Advanced Materials store).
ALSO, you could coat it in liquid latex (Or buy latex liners which I plan to make and sell for maybe $1 each, which perfectly fit these, to make cleaning much easier, and probably extend the life of your sleeve!), and make your own latex liners, which you can then fill with simply Gelatin if you wish (Which you can recycle. This is what I use to make the molds initially), and you can control the softness of that, and make your own sleeve cheaper (This one will mold if you let it. Its food. What jello is made from. So best to keep remelting it in the microwave, and store it in the fridge, probably melted so no one knows what you use it for).

You make gelatin softer by adding more Water (I use minimum water since it makes it easier to tear too), and more durable by adding Glycerin (Cheapest I found is at walmart for under $4 for 6Oz I think it was or online from Bulk Apothecary).
So with this method you can more easily hide the evidence, and change it every time you use it, if this is what you want.
And it should be cheaper, but the Gelatin is actually a bit pricey I think. I buy mine in bulk from the Supermarkets (Frys, Walmart, etc.).

So depending on what happens with my living situation in the next month, its possible I can get these made in less than a week I think, but I might not have a place to work for a whole month or more, so we'll see!
I spent six years learning everything I know now, preparing for this, to the point I now have only what I can carry on my back and no place to live, but that wont be much longer.
The whole point of everything I am doing is to SHOW everyone how to 'GovernPublicServants' and become #LIKEaSOVEREIGN, independent of our 'Government' and other systems, esp. 'lawyers', and now also how to recycle all the plastics which litter our streets and to make pretty much anything you wish for the least cost.

I am starting with these things, because there is the best initial profit margin, because the competing companies are not caught up with the Materials Technologies, and the nature of the product makes for higher profit margins (Since people usually want to hide such purchases).
ASAP I will move into 3D printers and show how to make anything out of any material too, but that will take time.
I might actually manage to begin production of these things, even camping outside in a tent, which, depending on what comes next, I might actually have to do (Depends on what options I find now).
That would actually be helpful, because then I would end up demonstrating how to start from absolutely nothing, find an idea, beg for some starter cash (Which IS how I have been getting by for a little while now), and then begin your own company, even while living outside in a tent!

I just dont want to, but if I have to, thats what will happen.
So wish me luck I guess! (Or help me find a new place to stay in Tempe Arizona, while I begin producing these and selling them. I think I can make over $500 in the first week, and an exponential increase in monthly profits thereafter, until I have a stable place in this market!).

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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WHO WANTS TO HELP, figure out the best heating elements?
Like the Oracle, I want USB powered heaters, which won't over heat, to insert and to wrap around these toys. I can't do most of this now, but here's a start...
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1481? ... fgod1VsPxg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1819097122 ... noapp=true

https://www.rei.com/product/876312/hotr ... fgodzMEIRw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3222065393 ... noapp=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3222065393 ... noapp=true

https://m.aliexpress.com/popular/usb-he ... ement.html

https://m.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-heating-element.html

I still also plan to make a hollow hard plastic part that matches the inside and face of the mold which u can fill with hot water and it will fit perfectly.
It could also be used as a mold to make or resurface your own!

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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I might be in production real soon now...
I started using the hard sculpey clay instead of Gelatin to make the mold and I might be done this week. There's just too much going on to predict how much time I'll have to work on it.

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

Post by rubherkitty »

Good to hear. :thumbs_up:
I know you've been doing a lot of work on this project.
Going downtown. Gonna see my gal. Gonna sing her a song. I'm gonna show her my ding dong! C&C

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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I tried to make the 1st prototype last night from gelatin with the textures inner shaft made from clay, but it failed. Need to try again.
Once I get that, a few repairs and then I can cast the silicone mold from that to begin production.
So I'm that close now.
And judging from the one that just failed (because the clay part shifted), the texture I'm using seems really good. Let's try and post pics...
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Here are the clay textured inner shift and two silicone parts for the front face of the mold,  and one face cast in gelatin, which got messed up...
Here are the clay textured inner shift and two silicone parts for the front face of the mold, and one face cast in gelatin, which got messed up...
IMG_20170111_133040.jpg (1.14 MiB) Viewed 2703 times

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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I figured it will be better to have an oval piece to fit the face mold and Center shaft to, so that when I am making the two pieces they will fit together exactly where that piece was. The problem with that test was the two pieces did not fit together that well and came apart while the gelatin was solidifying, cooling.

I plan to use a small oval piece and fit both to that piece, then when I put those two pieces together they should fit exactly, and I need to put a wood or metal shaft through the center of the clay shaft so it does not break apart like it did last time while the hot gelatin was Cooling.

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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Now I remade the center shaft, so there's a wooden dowel through it, so it won't break apart in the melted gelatin like before.
So if I get the next one to work, I can pour the silicone into that, and make the final mold, and then, FINALLY, begin production.
And you guys get special deals here!
So it just depends on when I can manage to do this now. But I'm that close now.
Then I'll get a workshop and hire help, and make custom designs that fit the dolls here, better materials and textures than the competitors, all custom!

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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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Here is an image of what I just made. Still needs work, but I'm getting closer.
This did not align quite right inside, and the face part needs more work, and there were bubbles which messed up the surface texture inside...
So I need to try again, but each time it gets better, closer.
The first ones will be clear silicone, until I sell some and buy more supplies.
Flesh tone pigment is costly, but it only takes a small amount for each unit.
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IMG_20170121_102418.jpg
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Re: Sex toy design and materials

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SOLUTION TO BUBBLE PROBLEM...
I figured I'll just apply the first one or more layers by hand, then pour to fill the mold, to prevent bubbles on the surface...
I'll use the measuring syringe (no needle), to apply the liquid silicone, suck bubbles off the clay model, and make textures, several layers, color, etc., then, when there are no bubbles on the surface, and it's thick enough, you can assemble the mold and fill.

These are designed for makeup, vertical surface application, so this should work.
I think I have the thickener, and hopefully enough dragon skin and slacker left, to make something to sell.
If not, I'll get more ASAP.
So this time it should work, and the reason I failed the first three times (bubbles) should be over.
This just takes more time and effort than the quicker ways I tried before.

You add a tiny amount of thickener, drops, until it stays as thick as desired on a vertical surface.
Probably best done after mixing, after bubbles settle.
IF I had a vacuum pump this would be better.
CAREFULLY choose which cure time to use, an hour might be a good working time.

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