156cm question about wrist rotation

abracadabra · Post by **abracadabra** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:17 am

Dees Man wrote:G'day all

With the weekend's festivities over and I was just trying to recover Ash stuck her hand up (literally) to do a quick video to show you how we rotate her wrists. I had looked at Harem's thread showing how to do this, but Ash's wrist's were so tight I was not willing to force it using the method he shows.

TDF member abracadabra has kindly allowed me to use his hand skeleton photo in the vid to help show what's going on inside her lovely hand.

DM

Great video!
so does it rotate at the wrist and the forearm now or just the forearm ? because they should be able to do both.

mike-fish · Post by **mike-fish** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:55 am

Thanks for the help on joints, better poses are now possible.

The joints rapped in string and gauze is logical to prevent the joint being blocked by TPE when pored in (if they pore it in) and as said by 'abacadabra' to prevent the TPE slipping of the skeleton.

How do you know those details, have you seen the process or taken a doll to bits?

Oil is absorbed by TPE, we know that but how far does it soak in? I it goes all the way it will eventually oil the joints, a good thing for tight joints but not so good for loose ones.

These issues may seen irrelevant to some doll owners but the better we understand, the better we can care for them and enjoy them more.

Dees Man · Post by **Dees Man** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:20 am

abracadabra wrote:Great video!
so does it rotate at the wrist and the forearm now or just the forearm ? because they should be able to do both.

Thanks

As the wrist rotates I can feel the "bone" in her arm move. The creaking you can hear in the video as it moves comes from near the elbow so my guess is that it only moves in that point further from wrist that you show in your other picture. It is the same for both wrists.

She is only a couple of months old. The first few times doing this was quite tight. Not sure if it's still as tight or if I'm just used to making this move. It's very different to the fluid movement of my other said doll.

DM

abracadabra · Post by **abracadabra** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:21 am

mike-fish wrote:Thanks for the help on joints, better poses are now possible.

The joints rapped in string and gauze is logical to prevent the joint being blocked by TPE when pored in (if they pore it in) and as said by 'abacadabra' to prevent the TPE slipping of the skeleton.

How do you know those details, have you seen the process or taken a doll to bits?

Oil is absorbed by TPE, we know that but how far does it soak in? I it goes all the way it will eventually oil the joints, a good thing for tight joints but not so good for loose ones.

These issues may seen irrelevant to some doll owners but the better we understand, the better we can care for them and enjoy them more.

it's an unlikely that oil would ever make it to the joints because of the Gauze material once it binds with the tpe material it creates a very thick membrane.
And yes I have a skeleton from which on collecting my information unfortunately my first doll did not have the luxury of having maintenance care information that Indigo has recently provided for the community.
And so in an effort to help along with the maintenance and Care information that indigo's provided I've donated the skeleton to science for further research as there are things that need to change with in the skeleton otherwise the TPe tears will continue to happen even with all the maintenance in the world if you have a pointy sharp skeleton beneath it it will always want to tear it

abracadabra · Post by **abracadabra** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:24 am

With my 1:48 the joints were very stiff and still are in some areas I did not realize that the wrist turned in 2 spots by the elbow and down by the wrist until I had the skeleton out that I know that

LAL · Post by **LAL** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:10 pm

DM:

Great video; thank you for the effort.
I've said it before; I pity the poor doll owner who has not found the TDF community.
Again: hopefully 2017 will be the year the doll companies focus on skeleton improvements to match the beauty improvements of 2016.

mike-fish · Post by **mike-fish** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:48 pm

Disaster - my hip joint on my new WM 156 has just gone crack and the leg is all floppy!

Any ideas?

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:38 pm

A hip break is horrendous. Very frustrating.

I'm always worried about putting my feet in it and coming to a conclusion about whether it's a manufacturing problem or whether it's a usage problem - as if one applies force against the direction of the hinge, the hinge has nowhere to go and something can break. But I was testing a prototype of a new brand of TPE doll, as a doll should be tested

and such a joint broke on me. I cut into the thigh along the seam line and found the part that broke

: 4815s.jpg (24.19 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

and the prototype design went back to the drawing board. The nuts were all welded and so I was unable to repair her and gave her away to a friend with engineering expertise.

It would be interesting to see what part has broken in the WM skeleton.

However, if I were you before doing anything I'd write to Sam at WM and tell him how long you've had her, what manoeuvre you were getting her to do at the time, and possibly do a video for him showing how tight the other joint is doing the same manoeuvre.

The danger with joints that are too tight is that components like this can break.

If you're lucky and everything isn't welded solid then perhaps the hinge assembly might be able to come apart for the replacement of the relevant component. I have tightened the bolts on Pippa's hip joints (WM158) viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74252 and tightening / loosening and the healing of the wound afterwards is not difficult.

Best wishes

Harem

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:06 pm

Great tutorial video DM! I'm glad you found the pics you needed!

mike-fish, I'd take advice from another thread on this and go back to the vendor asap, although Sam is very likely to be able to help too!

abracadabra · Post by **abracadabra** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:34 pm

that sucks, agreed with abovesaid check with the manufacturers . I can upload pics of the hip though it may

LAL · Post by **LAL** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:29 pm

As a potential doll owner I somehow lucked up and found the TDF forum. It quickly became apparent that some of the main discussion issues were (in no particular order) tpe vs silicone; stains; weight; and skeleton problems.

I have no idea how much effort the doll manufacturers put into R&D or even thinking about improving the product; but there is NOTHING stopping anyone from developing a better, cheaper, lighter, easier to move, more problem free skeleton. Even if they could redesign 2 or 3 features and it resulted in 50 percent higher production costs for the skeleton part; as a percentage of the entire product cost, many customers would be willing to pay a premium for a lighter, easier to move and more durable product.
I know I would gladly pay an extra hundred dollars if a new skeleton could take 10 percent of the weight off of my WM 152 doll; or maybe ball joints were used to make movement easier and more reliable.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:36 pm

Well you never know what goes on behind the scenes and the best manufacturers always have something new coming along. It's called R&D. Some manufacturers get so stuck on R&D they never get into production. WM does and the improvements we've seen in the past two years have been most worthwhile and they will no doubt keep going.

Best wishes

Harem

pmvlove · Post by **pmvlove** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:27 pm

I'm sorry to hear about the hip breaking...That's horrible! I originally was only asking about wrist rotation and before I even had a chance to try, I too had a break from standard use, only mine is luckily only fingers. It's still disheartening in a two week old doll that three fingers seemingly separated from the palm. She's otherwise great, and I don't regret the purchase, I just hope there's something that can be done.

abracadabra · Post by **abracadabra** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:21 am

LAL wrote:As a potential doll owner I somehow lucked up and found the TDF forum. It quickly became apparent that some of the main discussion issues were (in no particular order) tpe vs silicone; stains; weight; and skeleton problems.

I have no idea how much effort the doll manufacturers put into R&D or even thinking about improving the product; but there is NOTHING stopping anyone from developing a better, cheaper, lighter, easier to move, more problem free skeleton. Even if they could redesign 2 or 3 features and it resulted in 50 percent higher production costs for the skeleton part; as a percentage of the entire product cost, many customers would be willing to pay a premium for a lighter, easier to move and more durable product.
I know I would gladly pay an extra hundred dollars if a new skeleton could take 10 percent of the weight off of my WM 152 doll; or maybe ball joints were used to make movement easier and more reliable.

In regards to the weight of the skeleton it's practically nothing compared to the tpe material at a guess the skeleton might weigh 10 pounds .
Is it jagged and sharp and pointy on almost every single joint? Yes the answer is definitely yes. The sharp edges and unsanded well Bolt's with sharp edges, are Sinister and ruthless when it comes to tpe material when it comes to dealing with the material outside of itself are Sinister to tpe, as soon as it cuts its way through the cotton gauze it cuts through that tpe like warm butter over and over again

Fantastic Plastic · Post by **Fantastic Plastic** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:22 am

In a perfect world we would have strain sensors, proximity sensors, ball screws, gear motors, servomechanisms, all computer controlled, you call up different positions and sex acts from an app on your smartphone.
Oh wait, that's not a perfect world, that could be a bloody juicy nightmare in terms of service!
Never mind.