Softer Skin

Post by **Bill** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:47 pm

I had a long talk with Matt today about the body seven doll I have now and the one I have on order. He said that he had received many concerned telephone calls about skin softness or hardness, depending on how you look at it, generated from the post I made about how hard the skin was on my doll. Matt said that he had made the skin hard on Jerry's and my doll because we wanted durability and that they are still playing with the new silicone to see how hard it gets with different mixes. Matt asked me to tell everyone that he is going to make the skin softer but there is a trade-off with durability. He is working for the best balance for the average user but to have very soft skin for cuddling and maximum durability for extended photography you will have to get two dolls. Matt won't make them hard unless you ask for it on a special order, something he neglected to tell Jerry or me until today. This doll was to be my cuddly doll and my special order doll was to be for photography. Matt said that he will make me a third super cuddly doll but that I will have to wait for the new body seven molds to be built. He mentioned working on a body eight but said no more about it.

Mike Johnson · Post by **Mike Johnson** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:29 pm

That seems to be where we are at today. The questions is: can the hard dolls be used for sex at all?

The older softer dolls are great for sex, but tear easily.

Someday new materials will be used that combine both qualities. It's really the best for all, basically you can own more dolls if they are more durable.

[img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Post by **Bill** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:50 pm

Mike,
The hard skin will work okay for sex if that is all you want to do with her. I like to cuddle with my doll while I sleep and I need soft skin for that. I only lasted about an hour with Angel and had to replace her with holly. I'm going to have Matt make my replacement doll softer than normal and use her as a dedicated cuddle buddy. I'll use Angel and the new custom doll with moveable eyes for photography only.

Mike Johnson · Post by **Mike Johnson** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:44 pm

You hit it on the head. The doll would work - but that's about it. A soft doll would give a complete experience - including cuddling.

For right now, choices have to be made - hard and difficult ones.

[img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Corben_99 · Post by **Corben_99** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:57 pm

Hey Bill,
Did Matt, ask you anything about her joints, about how they are holding up? Can she still hold her arms out? I know you had trouble posing her leg joint. Did she loosen up a bit? Is there a clicking sound when you lock the joints in place? And did Matt verify, that all dolls now, will have the new locking joints?

Do you think he'll implement that new weight reducing technology he used in the male realdoll, in the newer female dolls?

Also does your new girl have finger wires? Or does she have a hand skeleton? And if she does have the wires, are they terminated at mid point, inside the finger flesh? Just wondering...... [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Durin1 · Post by **Durin1** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:43 pm

To Bill...

Will the soft skin mean that the doll tears like the old dolls?

Do you by durability mean how well the doll holds position?

Durin [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Post by **Bill** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:06 am

Corben_99,
Matt asked me if I was happy with the new skeleton. I said yes, but I thought the knee and elbow joints took way too much effort to position them. Matt said that is the way they have to be but he said that all the joints will loosen up over time. There is no clicking or locking sound. They are just stiff as hell.
Matt said that he arms will not hold position straight out because the shoulder joints are non-locking, that the arm is just too heavy to make that work well and he said that Thomas's skeleton couldn't do it either which was a surprised me because I thought it could.
I told Matt that I couldn't get both of the wrists to rotate. Matt said that they where too tight and that I should keep trying until they loosen up, but the hand could break if I use too much force. I wasn't too happy with that probability and don't know what to do now.
The fingers have a different wire that looks and works better than the old wire fingers. I'm very happy with the hands so far. I wish I could get the wrists to rotate but I'll keep working on it.
I know nothing about weight reduction or any effort to reduce weight.

Durin,
Softer skin will tear easier than the harder skin. I have say it over and over. Softness and tear resistance are opposites with silicone. Matt keeps looking for a silicone that has the best of both worlds.
Compression cracks are an other problem with silicone which will lead to tearing and the destruction of the doll. The new stand will reduce compression by keeping her in original position, but I can see some compression marks on the back of Angel's knees just from being shipped in the sitting position and over time they will open and tear. You can't leave the head bent forward because compression marks will form.
Silicone is great for the making of the dolls but is not good for the consumer. Other materials would be better but the cost of the molds for this type of manufacturing would go up and have some health risks to the manufacturer.
The doll will last forever if you never take her off the stand and only will be damaged by neglect. Use the doll and put her back on the stand the same day. This sucks for me because I would like to leave her in bed until I change bed cloths and then put her back in bed and I'm going to do that with my new cuddle doll and I do it now with Holly, but I will store the photography dolls correctly.
Durability has to do with how long the doll will last for the use intended. Tear resistance, compression resistance, skin paint, and joint failure would be items of durability. A poseable skeleton failing to hold a pose would be joint failure for photography but still okay for sex and play.

Midas · Post by **Midas** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:26 am

Bill check out this post. then talk to Porf. Sakai. http://www.DollForum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000407

Midas

Durin1 · Post by **Durin1** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:46 am

Bill,

Thanks for the long and very good answer.

Durin. [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Post by **Bill** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:53 am

I remember that but I don't have Porf. Sakai's skill. I've only done very limited repair. I repaired a joint but you can see the scar on the skin. Maybe I need more practice but my main limitation is my inability to mix color. I just don't have the eye for it.

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:32 pm

Thanks Bill, you answered the Questions that Jerry did not answer in his review. I really appreciate it! [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Can you liken the firmness of your Angel's skin to something we could all recognize in our own environments? (Still wondering if the hardness of both yours' and Adriana and Jerry's doll 7-11, would still be fine with me for cuddling...) [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Yuletide Cheers!

Neo [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Post by **Bill** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:50 pm

Neo,
Angel's skin has the feel of an automobile inner tube that has been over inflated for use in the water. I think she is hard because I own Realdolls with much softer skin. It was good to hear that Matt made the first two body 7 dolls very hard for durability and that he is going to make my other two dolls with softer skin. All of the production dolls will have skin that is softer than Angel's skin.

jackrabbit · Post by **jackrabbit** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:13 am

This concerns me to an extent. The whole point of Jerry getting a free doll (going by the original thread where Matt announced it) was so that Jerry could evaluate the doll, compare it with superbabes, and report the results. If the doll reported on is different from what a customer would get, is the report valid?

Post by **Bill** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 5:45 am

Jerry never said anything bad about the new body seven. He wouldn't do that. It was my big mouth and saying what I think rather than just getting along was the culprit.
I reported that the skin was too hard on the first doll. Matt made some changes in the silicone formula to make it softer. This change is a minor thing.
It is difficult to judge softness in a review and if the review would find a flaw, then wouldn't you expect Matt to fix it on the next doll manufactured.
I don't see any problem with the review process when it leads to a better doll.

Post by **Jerry** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:22 pm

Actually... I think the skin on the Body-7 doll that Matt sent is perfect. It feels soft to me. Unless you happened to have two dolls side-by-side... or unless you happened to have felt a doll before... you would NOT know the difference.

This skin is durable, it feels soft to me. Adriana had Matt make her with no soft goo in the breasts... that would have been nice... but other than that... she is fine.

Valentine (a first run body-2) is very soft... but EVERY time I move her I risk doing damage. I move her 3 times per year... once in spring, once at the end of summer, and mid winter when Adriana wants to sleep with her. Other than that... every time I have to move her I end up fixing a nick somewhere.

This new doll could probably fall over and be okay. Well... maybe not... but you get the idea.

By the way Bill... press a bit harder on the wrist rotation and it will "break free". Our doll's left wrist moved a tiny bit... now it has 30 degrees of freedom. The other one didn't move at all... then creaked a bit and got looser. Now both are okay. Seems like they just bound up a bit... friction fit. She just needs to be moved awhile... then she will loosen up somewhat.

I think she would be great for a "Reverse Cowgirl" move... would probably feel great. (No... Adriana won't let me try.) [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]

About the only suggestion I can offer is to get an "S-hook" to go between your dolls stand and her eye-bolt. The eye-bolt wants to rotate because of the way the stand's hook is positioned. This gives a 90 degree rotation so the eye-bolt can be rotated (unscrewed) 90 degrees. She will hang more straight and not try to pivot left too. (Plus it's a cheap fix.)

Jerry [img]modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]