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Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Realistic silicone love dolls by Matt McMullen. RealDoll is the oldest and most well known love doll to which all others compare. Includes Boytoys.
Website: realdoll.com

Moderator: TJ_Foxx

I would buy a RealDoll if:

Poll ended at Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:44 pm

The price was under $3500
30
11%
The price was under $3000
20
7%
The price was under $2500
64
23%
They offer the completed robotic doll
13
5%
They improved customer service
3
1%
They made more varied faces
28
10%
They made a TPE doll
16
6%
They made a softer silicone doll
10
4%
They made more petite body styles
32
12%
They made more voluptuous body styles
23
8%
They made a standing doll body
37
13%
 
Total votes: 276

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rubyfan
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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by rubyfan »

I think all this bagging on Abyss faces is a little overblown. There is a pretty wide selection and some really beautiful options; many of which are not androgynous at all. That said, Abyss really, really needs to listen to this feedback. This is obviously a real issue many guys seem to be experiencing.

What's the solution? Abyss hires a second sculptor? Another idea is Abyss 3D-scanning some new faces, but it's not clear if they can really do that at the moment and turn such scans into usable silicone molds. If they can get 3D-scanning to work, do they need to do a poll asking people who do not like their current face selection for suggestions/examples of the kind of faces they should be scanning? Matt can't pick the models to scan, as that kinda defeats the purpose.

It'd be really easy to dismiss these complaints as sour grapes from people who can't afford Realdolls, but that's not the way a successful company should act or think. When potential customers tell you there's a problem with your product, listen to them!

For my part, I'm saving to buy an RD2, and am quite happy with the current face selection on offer (though new faces are always welcome).

:glou:
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."—H.L. Mencken

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by MannyCan »

MANABU wrote:yup, i can afford a realdoll. but sanhui got my business. for the reasons above and for my original post about the faces, i still feel if I won a realdoll as a prize, Id sell it and buy 2 Sanhui. no regrets.
Yep, I agree.
rubyfan wrote:I think all this bagging on Abyss faces is a little overblown.
ruby, I respect your opinion. But enough people has raised it as a point that there's probably something to it.

The human brain only uses 10% of its capacity. Doh!
And OF that used capacity, 10% is use completely on facial recognition (including discerning emotion and intent via facial queues).
To the uninitiated .. this is a HUGE amount of computational space in the brain. It is the thing we do the best and most naturally.

Hence ..

You HAVE to get the face right. I personally think RD is still lacking in this department, just honest feedback.
Bar none, for me this was the reason I ended up with a DS. Not the money. I would have LOVED to keep the business domestic. And I heard RD is a stand up company to work with. I also try to buy domestic cars too. But it doesn't always work out like that. Companies still need to win the business by producing what the customers want.

My suggestion?
Stop going for "pornstar" and get "pretty" right first. RD faces look like they are demanding sex.
Ironically this is not as sexy as you might think. A "super pretty girl who is enthusiastic about sex" looks massively different than a "generally slutty girl". Just my opinion.

As for what would make my next purchase be a RD?
A REALLY PRETTY robotic face (like what other companies are developing) would make me a customer.
Hell, a head like that which could fit onto other manufacturer's dolls would be a mint machine in itself.
Why not leapfrog the competition by getting to that first?

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Peregrination »

I think people are forgetting the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find most of the Abyss faces quite attractive, and after taking a quick look at Sanhui, I wouldn't take one of their dolls for free.

Furthermore, the fact that many people are responding that one of their top desires is more faces belies the fact that the overwhelming biggest concern is cost. It wouldn't do Abyss any good to put out a line of (for example) Sanhui-like faces only to find that people still prefer the Sanhui product on price.

There's also a concern with branding. Every maker has their own aesthetic, and changing it risks alienating current customers. The biggest complaint about New Coke was that it tasted like Pepsi. If a hundred drivers went to Ferrari and said they really wanted a Ferrari that looked like a Porsche... I'm thinking that Ferrari would send them on their way.

I do wonder why this survey even exists: granted that any business is always interested in new customers, my understanding is that Abyss is pretty backlogged. Unless they plan to add capacity, it's an odd time to do a survey. If they think there's a possibility of reducing price, it's interesting to (completely without foundation) speculate that they're looking at manufacturing in China.

Finally, this:
MannyCan wrote:The human brain only uses 10% of its capacity.

is completely false.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Brick »

Its always going to be about price. I have tried to show in my factory of Dreams thread, the time and artistry that goes into Realdoll. For Matt Mcmullin its not about selling the most Dolls, its about selling the most beautiful, realistic, dolls. Its about artistry and craftsmanship, not creating something you can just fuck, but something you look at and are overwhelmed with desire and want to be intimate with. A beautiful piece of art that you can be intimate with, is a dream...
A never ending parade of beautiful Realdolls and of course, HARMONY!!

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by dullahan »

Zebo wrote:Its always going to be about price. I have tried to show in my factory of Dreams thread, the time and artistry that goes into Realdoll. For Matt Mcmullin its not about selling the most Dolls, its about selling the most beautiful, realistic, dolls. Its about artistry and craftsmanship, not creating something you can just fuck, but something you look at and are overwhelmed with desire and want to be intimate with. A beautiful piece of art that you can be intimate with, is a dream...
I don't think anyone can deny the love and attention to detail tat goes to RealDolls. Some people just prefer faces that are different from what Matt designs.

As for price, there are always premium products for the people who can afford them. Dolls in general are a luxury product. You won't sell hundreds of top of the line Lamborghinis every month like a model like Ford Fiesta might. And that's ok. No-one's entitled to a RealDoll. There are now also many people here that wouldn't ever be able consider getting a doll when they were all priced like RealDolls due to their financial situation. This is due to the fact that TPE dolls have made dolls accessible to general public. What once was only possible to people with significant amount of disposable income has now seen a surge in interest.

But to dismiss the criticism about the head designs should at least make you guys at Abyss think if you want the business of the people who are signalling that they'd be more willing to consider your dolls if there were "less adult actress -looking" faces. I know for a fact that Matt listens to feedback and is able to make good business decisions based on that. With Harmony AI, they have often listened to their community and made changes accordingly. Good changes that still retain the vision for the project but make the app better. It's up to Matt to design if he wants to attract these people as customers. Only he knows if it's financially worth pursuing.

We all have different tastes and ideals of beauty. There are enthusiasts from at least 3 generations here that have all grown to different beauty ideals, not to mention people from different parts of the world. Different cultures and all. While you might really like faces and bodies that people here have dubbed "porn-star aesthetics", there are a huge amount of us who'd feel more connected to slightly more approachable looking designs. Girl next door, if you will. Do you guys at Abyss want our business or do we have to keep buying our dolls from other manufacturers? The choice is yours.
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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by MannyCan »

Peregrination wrote:
MannyCan wrote:The human brain only uses 10% of its capacity.
is completely false.
Please forgive me. It wasn't my intention to do science there. That's not intended to be a precise statement. Its just a metaphor for "the brain is curiously under-utilized.".
Peregrination wrote:I think people are forgetting the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Yes - this is why I said this was my opinion.

But Peregrination, thank you for your response. I can see where I might have also unintentionally misconveyed some ideas. A forum post is fraught with opportunities for miscommunication.

My beef isn't with that RD isn't producing exactly what I (personally) want. My suggestion was only to help open the eyes of the manufacturer that they are missing part of the market by fixating on one segment (which I think they did unintentionally).
That is .. not people who like faces that are too sexually focused (and in my opinion a little too sexually aggressive).

Remember, the question is: what would make you be a RD customer? Some segment (I would argue a lot) THOUGHT they just wanted a sex toy. But then found out they really wanted a beautiful presence (a pseudo relationship). RD seems to have perfected sex part. But maybe its worth spending a little R&D time on the other stuff.

Check out my poll from the users themselves.
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=83203&p=1091990

See? Many people start out drooling over a sex doll. But many, many people by the time they consider their second doll want something a little more. I'm just saying, please consider that in the formula. My post was not to bag on RD .. I WANT TO HAVE AN RD ONE DAY. It was a sincere suggestion on how they might be better if they are looking to expand their market.

I'll post a specific example in a little bit.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Begog »

EQ8t wrote:
MANABU wrote:I would buy a Realdoll or Boytoy tomorrow if there was an actual face that I was attracted too. Its a complete turn off. There is no delicate femininity in ANY of your faces.
+1

Practically, price is a barrier to RD - Ok, it's a premium product, though I'd rather have several other very nice dolls for the same price.

More importantly, facial aesthetics. Unless you're into androgynous faces with big jaws that look like they could crack lumber, it's not happening!
Really? What about Aimee, Carmen, Britney, Laila, Victoria, and Sai? Are they not "girl next door" enough for you? Remember, Real Dolls have mouths with jaws that actually pose (for expression) with realistic teeth and tongue (a removable mouth insert) instead of a TPE "mouth hole" with craptacular fake teeth, or none at all. It's just an orifice. You can put a Bluetooth speaker in a Real Doll's mouth. Take that into consideration.

As far as price, yeah, that's a biggie. They have come down some, but still 3 times the price of TPE. Of course, she will probably LAST 3 times as long and is far more repairable. I've met several Real Dolls 10 years plus. I doubt any TPE dolls last that long, but we'll see.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by dullahan »

Begog wrote: Really? What about Aimee, Carmen, Britney, Laila, Victoria, and Sai? Are they not "girl next door" enough for you?
No. Laila is closest but still far away. At least in the promo pictures they don't really look like what me and some other people mean.

Some people like the Sanhui look more, I like the more adult faces of DS, Private Island Beauties and the hard faces of Textile Dolls (the looks of them at least).

Don't get me wrong. RD faces are great looking works of art. They could be used in product advertisements in place of real models. Stacy's photos of them can prove that. But something in all of them doesn't connect with me in the same way one of the other US silicone company's faces do for example. That won't change no matter how much RD fans come here to counter-argue. It's a preference, not an attack on your favourite manufacture.

Many also like asian faces and the asian companies do those much better at the moment. Visually, at least. As you said, RD has more features and probably more attention to detail in many ways.
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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by MannyCan »

This is very good discourse. I appreciate that people are respectful of other people's view. Similarly, out of respect for the manufacturer (and the intent of the original post), I've started a new topic here:

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=91212

I felt my explanation would be too lengthy. Please feel free to join there if you are interested in this topic of faces and the intentions they convey.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Begog »

Dullahan: I have compared all the dolls you just mentioned SIDE BY SIDE with Real Dolls and those of other makes at multiple doll meets. Sanhui's look too young to me (personal preference), PIB's cartoony (again, PP). DS dolls are a good low-cost alternative, but they get blown away when you set them next to a Real Doll. IMHO, my Jinsan TPE dolls have them beat in most aspects, and even Real Dolls in some. Textile Dolls (again IMHO), are the absolute finest fabric dolls made, but you just can't compare them to a finely crafted Real Doll sex goddess. Having been around many of them, my respect for them has only gone up. I got a ton of respect for some other manufacturers too, especially when cost or bang-per-buck enters the equation. But when we are talking "best sex doll on the planet," it is really hard to put ANY manufacturer above Abyss Creations.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by dullahan »

Begog wrote:Dullahan: I have compared all the dolls you just mentioned SIDE BY SIDE with Real Dolls and those of other makes at multiple doll meets. Sanhui's look too young to me (personal preference), PIB's cartoony (again, PP). DS dolls are a good low-cost alternative, but they get blown away when you set them next to a Real Doll. IMHO, my Jinsan TPE dolls have them beat in most aspects, and even Real Dolls in some. Textile Dolls (again IMHO), are the absolute finest fabric dolls made, but you just can't compare them to a finely crafted Real Doll sex goddess. Having been around many of them, my respect for them has only gone up. I got a ton of respect for some other manufacturers too, especially when cost or bang-per-buck enters the equation. But when we are talking "best sex doll on the planet," it is really hard to put ANY manufacturer above Abyss Creations.
Unfortunately I have not had the chance to go to a doll meet but many echo what you say. RealDolls steal the thunder when different dolls are put into the same room. I don't dispute that.

I'm very particular about heads and eyes especially. Usually I don't really like any of the doll faces as I'm very suspectible to the uncanny valley -effect. PiB's cartoony faces work for me just for this reason. They're not trying for most realism, therefore they are outside the uncanny valley.

TD faces have a nice sculpt but otherwise they of course can't compare to high-end faces. DS dolls I've only seen in pictures and I like some of them. They are also a bit less realistic in my opinion, which helps. I'm not a lover of cartoony characters,

I'd prefer realism, I really do, but the faces that go for the most realism put me off. Because despite their best efforts they are always going to be just slightly less than 100% realistic, which puts them dead center into the uncanny valley.

Again this is a personal preference and apparently I'm not alone here. Defending Abyss does not change that there are people like me who would prefer RD's to have different kind of faces than they currently offer. You can argue about the quality of them here until the end of times but it still doesn't matter to people like us who are expressing that we'd like different-looking faces. I still underline that this is not criticism or a personal attack against Abyss or you. Just a difference of a taste in beauty.
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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by nicvncnt »

Begog wrote:But when we are talking "best sex doll on the planet," it is really hard to put ANY manufacturer above Abyss Creations.
I couldn't agree more, but as others have mentioned price is a major factor in the choice of doll, particularly when a RD costs 3 times what a TPE doll costs. Of course RealDolls are without doubt better than TPE dolls, but are they 3 times better?

Abyss chose to include lower price options in this poll so it's reasonable to assume they are asking themselves the same question. There's no reason I can think of that would prevent them making cheaper TPE-type dolls alongside their existing range, or offering different face-types (girl next door etc) alongside their exisiting faces.

Finally, one of the more popular options in this poll is for the dolls to be able to stand. It's no miracle of technology that allows Chinese dolls to stand, just a simple skeleton mod to the feet. I can't believe anyone wouldn't prefer their doll to be able to stand unsupported, I would have thought this one was a no-brainer.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by MannyCan »

dullahan wrote:Usually I don't really like any of the doll faces as I'm very susceptible to the uncanny valley -effect.
This would be a lot better or a lot worse if robotics are not done right. Part of the problem of static faces is that they illicit the feeling of death. So if they don't convey an emotion, its really easy to fall into that. A simple smile helps. But its still static.

I hope that doll manufacturers will look deeply and sensibly into this as they forge into robotics. There are like (again, not science here) over 30 muscles in the face to convey emotions. Getting that range of emotions with a few servos will make it very easy to slip into the uncanny valley.

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Begog »

dullahan wrote: RealDolls steal the thunder when different dolls are put into the same room.
That sir, is a huge understatement. It's like putting a Barbie next to a Phicen. :glou:
dullahan wrote:I still underline that this is not criticism or a personal attack against Abyss or you. Just a difference of a taste in beauty.
No problem, friend. We are all entitled to our opinions and preferences. I have 6 non-Abyss dolls, so obviously, I like them too. :thumbs_up:

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Re: Poll from Realdoll: What would make you a customer?

Post by Dollyworld »

CF wrote:Your reputation for customer service and safe, reliable shipping is well established!

Personally, I'm waiting for you to revisit the Body 9 concept, and go with an even bigger-breasted doll. See what you can do!
I agree with CF on this regarding the body 9. I’d love to see her back in production but as a torso.
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